Taijitu
Forum Meta => The Role Play Council => Archived Role Play Boards => Archive => Proposals and Discussion => Topic started by: Myroria on February 13, 2007, 11:32:46 PM
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I move that the resource system be either:
1. Drastically improved
2. Removed altogether.
My reasons:
We can't do anything by ourselves. Especially the commies, who don't import anything from capitalist nations. Here's just a small list of things that cannot be made anywhere without outside help:
Computers (so many little parts with different resources that no nation can make them by themselves)
Airplanes (see above.)
Pretty much any electronic (see above.)
Fabric (considering basically no one took anything to make fabric with)
Anything plastic (You need a shitload of stuff to make plastic)
Reason two: The resources are soooooo common they're practically not resources. Since when has water been a resource? Even Albania, with 98% of it's people having access to water, is considered bad. Why not make oxygen a resource while we're at it, and force everybody to choose it?
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I agree. When I voted for the system I thought it was just going to be for trade and such. I would have never voted it in if I knew had to trade for every single resource to make something.
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Ah, finally people are coming around to my side.
*Evil laughter*
*Coughs*
But more seriously, I've said it from the start and I'll say it again: turning RP into a numbers and statistics driven game and competition, especially when said numbers are encouraging people to go on imperialistic rampages which will inevitabley result in great big, moronic confrontations driven by an insane competition before all else mentality, is a recipe for disaster. Soon, instead of writing our stories and histories we're just sitting at our calculators punching in numbers for hours on end and at eachother's throats, bickering over just what all of these numbers mean. God, I remember when I did that back in the First Lexicon War...
*shudders*
Sucked the fun out of everything in an instant.
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The FLW was fun, I don't know what you're talking about :P Oh wait, we were the fun side, randomly bombing places for no reason at all.
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When I voted for it I thought it was just "primary resources". Not, that's all we get.
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Example, one of USA's resources is oil. They get it from Texas and Alaska, yet they still have to import oil from Nigeria and the Middle East. Hence why a nation may have many natural resources but in reality, cannot meet their domestic demands and has to import additional resources to supplement their own or lack thereof.
As Pragmia so desires, to avoid number crunching, I thought (and others as this has been discussed for some amount of time) a smaller number of resources per nation. Rather than 'okay I can get this much oil from my drilling operations and my country needs that much oil, so I can export only this much oil.' Or 'darn I can only drill this much oil so I need to import that amount of oil to meet domestic demand.'
I'd like to point out that I find it funny that the main opponents to this resource systems are the ones that havent engaged in much, if any, trade at all. No nation is self sufficient.
I had expected, perhaps foolishly, that there was going to be a huge trade convention of some sort once the system was in place, so nations can trade, swap, etc and get their desired resources. I should have known change would be slow and resistance was to be expected.
The real purpose of the resource system was to give strength diplomatic and ecomonic options to the RP, instead of reverting to military threats (we all just saw Ryza and Myro attempt to gang up against Dervmark). I've also said many times, that the resource system will continue to evolve and change. This is only a natural expectation as any new, unproven system will require adjustments to better prefect it.
If the resource system is abolished in its entirety, I can make you one promise. Expect bullying, military alliances, and wars to occur more frequently.
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If the resource system is abolished in its entirety, I can make you one promise. Expect bullying, military alliances, and wars to occur more frequently.
Or less frequently considering we're not at each other's throats about the meager 8 resources we get and we can actually support ourselves.
I know no nation is self-sufficient. But no nation has to import EVERY SINGLE ITEM from their neighbors.
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You dont need every single item, just what you dont have. Thats why you get your picks of eight resources.
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Here's an idea; expand the Resource system to include more common resources, limit the number of nations that can have a certain rare resource (everybody's got oil and uranium).
Here's what I did when choosing my resources. I was a bit confused about which ones to take, so I logged on to the CIA world factbook and looked up Cuba. I think it's perfectly obvious that I model much of my nation after Cuba, so most of my resources would match. My food resources are Chinese, and most of my other resources are Cuban.
Model yourself after another country! Don't just randomly choose resources. This would give the advantages that you know what that country's imports are as well, and will know whom you have to trade with.
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You dont need every single item, just what you dont have.
Which is pretty much everything.
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Here, for example, are Cuba's imports and exports.
Exports:
sugar, nickel, tobacco, fish, medical products, citrus, coffee
Imports - commodities:
petroleum, food, machinery and equipment, chemicals
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I had considered that, but again, as many poeple are quick to remind anyone, this isnt earth. If a bunch of nations want to repeatedly pick oil as their rare, then that means on Taijitu oil is more plentiful.
:taijitu:
I am still waiting on a nation to pick cotton. :D
I did the same as you did GC, I looked up various equatorial nations and made my selections from here.
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Still, the same geologic processes occur here, and besides, rare means rare. If a resource is listed as rare, that means that not everybody should have it, for then it ceases to be rare.
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Maybe we had far more animals that fossilized than Earth.
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Exports
Natural Resources
Cobalt, copper, iron, limestone, uranium, water
Agricultural Products
Corn, rice, sugar, crabs, frogs, shrimp
Finished Goods
Electronics, military hardware, nuclear equipment, pharmacuetical grade recreational drugs, steel, superalloys
Imports
Acle
Bauxite
Silicon
Oil
Titanium
Nerdic Food Importation Company of Irnotia
Fruites Vegitibles
Irnotia Irnotia
Tomato*, Cherry, Plum, Grapes Broccoli, Lettuce,
PUR
Orange, Pomegranate, Strawberry
Ryazania
Grapes, Strawberries, Peaches
Derva
Plum, Cactus Fruit, Banana,
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seafood Animal Products
PUR Irnotia
Uichi Ryan Turtle, Seaweed, Crocodile Beef
Ryazania
Mahi Mahi, Shark, Lobster
Derva
Marlin, Tuna, Lobster
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Grain Narcotics
PUR Irnotia
Rice, Sugar, Coffee, Cocoa, Bamboo, Wild Rice Wine, Tobacco
Derva Derva
Oats Zuavka
Supremo
Animal (cow, pig, poultry)
Grain (rice, wheat, corn)
Fish (crab, tuna, seaweed)
Lumber
Diamond
Platinum
Validus
Gold
From my Nat Stats, although the gold from Validus is still in question since nothing was formalized. I've been engaging in ecomonic pursuits since we got this RP started. Now, should Acle decide to cut me off, I am fucked as I have no other source of oil. As it stands, Acle holds strong leverage over my nation and thus if I were to do something he didnt like, he could withhold his oil to make me stop. Hello? Economic sanctions!
Or we go back to the old ways. "Ha I am bigger than you are! GET IN MY BELLY!"
Any other oil producing nations wanna trade with me? O:-)
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We can't do anything by ourselves. Especially the commies, who don't import anything from capitalist nations.
Which is therefore the advantage of a Comecon type agreement. Xyrael, PUR, and myself had agreed beforehand to trade with each other, and Herald-Collier and I are discussing an agreement. Between us, we have petrochemicals, electronics, plastics, aluminum, steel, uranium, food, lumber, superalloys from H-C's cobalt, and various and sundry items.
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Still, the same geologic processes occur here, and besides, rare means rare. If a resource is listed as rare, that means that not everybody should have it, for then it ceases to be rare.
The purpose of making it a rare was so people could *gasps* THINK about their rare selection against other countries.
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We can't do anything by ourselves. Especially the commies, who don't import anything from capitalist nations.
Which is therefore the advantage of a Comecon type agreement. Xyrael, PUR, and myself had agreed beforehand to trade with each other, and Herald-Collier and I are discussing an agreement. Between us, we have petrochemicals, electronics, plastics, aluminum, steel, uranium, food, lumber, superalloys from H-C's cobalt, and various and sundry items.
Smart man.
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Besides, Myroria, that's only my policy, and I'm not sure if PUR, Xyrael, and H-C have adopted it.
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PUR hasnt since she is involved with Irnotia in the agricultral exchange.
Anyways, its one thing to knock the system but, I dont see anyone, besides GC, proposing "better" versions.
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Because all a resource system does is make things more complicated and boring.
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OR...
It keeps people from doing bad things like "I don't care if you blockade me because I'm completely self-sufficient!"
I know. I've done it, and it's awful RP. If we're trying to come up with even a reasonable facsimile of international politics, we've got to figure in natural resources. Otherwise, blockades become ineffective, imperialism can't be justified (which is why you should support the RS, Garth), and a large reason for creating alliances and blocs would have disappeared. It simply doesn't make sense.
Besides, it's not like this is one of those tracker-type maladies. It's very simple; you choose your resources, and that's all. It's not like you have to keep track of them by logging into a calculator every twenty minutes, and trading partners are easy to keep track of.
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I never said "make us completely self-sufficient". This is basically so we have at least more resources to choose from. Why not increase it to 15 common, 5 rare or something?
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I'm against increasing rares, for reasons already stated (rare means rare,) but increasing commons is by no means a bad idea. Besides, you have yet to found your "Jewel Colony," which would give you another Rare, and Ryaz has yet to found one as well.
How does eight commons sound?
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10 commons?
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haggling, eh? :fight:
I'm sticking with eight, but Bustos should also propose a number. And perhaps, if we're agreeing to increase the number of commons, the increase should be put before a vote of the Council.
Something like this:
Do you wish to increase the number of common resources in the Resource system to...
- eight commons
- ten commons
- fifteen commons
- <whatever Bustos proposes>
- I do not wish to increase the number of commons.
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Increasing the number of commons, should result in an increase in number of commons listed.
We could also get rid of water as a resource for simplicity.
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Yes, at the very least I would like the removal of water as a required resource, and sugar moved out of grains and in among tea, indigo, cotton, etc. as a seperate resource in its own right.
The main reason I suppose I would like to keep it with adjustments is so that I can create a Taijitan OPEC and control the world >: )
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If we get rid of water, we must get rid of food. The assumption behind getting rid of water is that it's a resource that everybody has. Well, it isn't. The comparison is made to air, but everybody has air; nowhere on a sufficiently large planet is there a lack of atmosphere. Water is scarce and discrete, and should be counted.
Besides, that eliminates the concept of "desert," and ignores the fact that many countries actually do import water. It's perfectly fine with me if you don't want to include water as a resource; it's not manditory. Only be prepared to trade for it.
And I agree with Prag about sugar, as I always have.
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There's more water than land on a planet, and we're in the 21st century. We know how to turn seawater into fresh water.
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landlocked nations?
I would like salt added as a resource.
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They have rivers still.
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If we get rid of water, we must get rid of food. The assumption behind getting rid of water is that it's a resource that everybody has. Well, it isn't. The comparison is made to air, but everybody has air; nowhere on a sufficiently large planet is there a lack of atmosphere. Water is scarce and discrete, and should be counted.
Besides, that eliminates the concept of "desert," and ignores the fact that many countries actually do import water. It's perfectly fine with me if you don't want to include water as a resource; it's not manditory. Only be prepared to trade for it.
And I agree with Prag about sugar, as I always have.
All true points. Water should be kept. Nevermind my previous thought.
So we changing this from its removal to its expansion?
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apparantly.
In regards to Myroria's comments...
Rivers might be polluted. Nations might not have the technology to distill the water out of seawater (you need plastic or glass, as well as some sort of fuel for your heat source) I'm sure there are other examples that aren't coming to me...
Oh, and distillation needs to happen on a large scale, not the laboratory distilation that I was envisioning. This means you would need suction pumps, which require electric power, steel for a pipeline, concrete to build the facility itself, and a distribution system.
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Move sugar out of grains....
Go for a vote on more or same resources....
If there is a consensus for more resources per nation add more resources to the list.....including salt....
If there is a consensus for the same resources remove water from the list......
does that cover it???
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It is reasonable to include salt as a resource if we are keeping water.
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zinc and nickel should be added as resources as well, and we forgot a BIG one: natural rubber.
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Natural rubber as a raw resource?
Last I checked natural rubber comes from trees, aka lumber.
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No, they are worlds apart! Lumber can come from just about any old tree. Rubber on the other hand specifically needs the rubber tree.
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Whoa, sorry. Dont get your panties in a bunch there Pragmia. I'll add it later on, but with the abundance of oil in Taijitu I doubt it'll make any difference.
Natural Rubber
Salt
Nickel
Zinc
Got it. All common.
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Also Furs....as a rare....
being as there are hundreds of thousands of okapi and jaguar and ocelot and such in Daimiaena....
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Furs will be added as a rare under Other.
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Yes. I´d say, 15 common ressources, and three rares....we need more rares. Besides, the colony rules are...um...crap. A colony should be treated as own nation in terms of the ressource system, although the obtaining of ressources might be very low on the beginning phases....
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I had considered that, but again, as many poeple are quick to remind anyone, this isnt earth. If a bunch of nations want to repeatedly pick oil as their rare, then that means on Taijitu oil is more plentiful.
:taijitu:
I am still waiting on a nation to pick cotton. :D
I did the same as you did GC, I looked up various equatorial nations and made my selections from here.
I picked cotton...
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rubber plants, but adding some more chemicals for pharmisuticals, and such. people keep saying they will make things if they use supliments but dont have anything to make them