Taijitu Greater War

[Funkadelia]

Ooo, Oz could attack Jutensa and MTO invade Funkadelia as allies, though Oz is not about trade so much.  Maybe J & F restricts our access for some reason?  Could be a human trafficking issue?

I just thought about that too. But my thought was, some people were talking about having, maybe, after the first Great War a "League of Nations that actually worked." My idea is possible Funkadelia being invaded by one of the Northern Cefnor countries for one reason or another, and then Funkadelia's leader giving a Haile Selassie type speech to this organization, and instead of everyone going "meh," people could actually act on it, triggering a war. That might be too close to RL history for some people's tastes though.

Some people have mentioned a North Cefnor vs. South Cefnor war, however I don't think that would be very interesting. With the North being far wealthier than the South, the Southern nations would be overwhelmed extremely quickly and would basically be demolished.

[Myroria]

That's another good idea. Myroria could probably have ambitions to own Funkadelia in this scenario.

[St Oz]

I've thought about removing some of the very inactive southern cefnor nations (less than 20 posts... hasn't logged on in months), and adding more land to the  Multidimensional Order since it's historically an expansionist nation and he RPs so frequently and so well, That being said....

I'll do it on the permission of BBB and perhaps BBB would invade Funkadelia with Myroria, Khem, Jutensa, or anyone else as a way to gain access to Cefnor or bypass trading through the strait by constructing a large intercontinental railway.

Another option is just have M.O. and Funkadelia invade what is Malawa (one of the inactive nations up for removed) to get the same result, extra land for Funkadelia and some Cefnor access for M.O.

Too many options on the plate though

[bigbaldben]

I've thought about removing some of the very inactive southern cefnor nations (less than 20 posts... hasn't logged on in months), and adding more land to the  Multidimensional Order since it's historically an expansionist nation

Yes! I've been planning to request an expansion for modern day borders.  MO, as I fill in the backstory, expands for no other reason than because it thinks it should. We're always shooting ourselves in the foot economically and culturally because we can't sit still for a minute and consolidate.

Anyhoo, we could invade Funkadelia or Malawa on general principle - siding with whatever Northern country provokes the Haile Salassi speech.  It would all be a sham reason of course.  In reality, just a land grab.  Would be realistic for a nation to state a reason for war while most of the world knows good and well its not the true reason.

[Eluvatar]

One thought I've proffered for consideration is what we want to happen with Nuclear weapons.

My suggestion is for them to be developed midway through the war, and see considerable use. The weapons would be first generation bombs, dirty and inefficient, and primarily used in the field (and not against cities). The somewhat unexpected radiation sickness experienced by many soldiers, and various other effects, would lead the new "UN" post war to take nuclear non-proliferation and mutual limitations very seriously (allowing us to effectively ban nukes post-war OOC in a way that makes sense IC).

I"ll be clear: on IRC, there is no consensus behind this. Please correct me Oz if I'm wrong but I believe the alternate argument is that we should just not have nuclear weapons exist, period. It would harm my suspension of disbelief, some, but if others feel my proffered scenario is too destructive and doesn't limit nuclear weapons enough, we can stick with "nukes are never developed." (??)

Separately, Gulliver and I have been discussing Rykkovaa's role in the war: he would like Rykkovaa to stay fascist post-war, so I've suggested that if it be on the antidemocratic side of the war that it seek a separate peace midway through the war, while the allies still need every advantage they can get.

Funkadelia, I see a few ways to make a North v South (+Rykkovaa) war work:

1. The "South" starts the war, and manages to achieve significant successes with decisive aggression early on, such as: occupation of important resource producing or industrial territories, Taranto/Pearl Harbor-like devastating harbor attacks on fleets, and opening communications between AK and MO.
2. The "South" includes Al Khem, which is at this point quite heavily industrialized, geared to a total war economy.
3. The "North," as it includes traditional enemies in St Oz and Eluvatar (& Myroria), has difficulty cooperating militarily at first. (ersatz League of Nations has no military command system).
4. The Megatridimensional Order could also have a potent war machine at this time, though I think bigbaldben indicates they'd have some logistical difficulties.
5. The "North" could be in the middle of economic and social difficulties when the war begins, perhaps a melange of the Great Depression, labor unrest (perhaps supported by Khem), and rapidly modernizing social mores (in terms of music &  dance, birth control, drugs, gay pride, and declining devotion to religion). This would make preparing for war harder.
6. The "South" could develop nuclear weapons first.

[Khem]

I particularly like your take on the North vs South and would agree that use of nuclear arms to prevent future nuclear arms is more S.O.D. reinforcing than a complete lack of such weapons.

[St Oz]

I have no problem with nukes, I just didn't know how other people might feel about them being used on themselves or others because it's something so destructive that they'd have to continue RPing about in modern times. 

[bigbaldben]

I particularly like your take on the North vs South and would agree that use of nuclear arms to prevent future nuclear arms is more S.O.D. reinforcing than a complete lack of such weapons.

Agreed.  I like the North vs. South take and the idea of nuclear weapons reduction directly because of the consequences from using them in the war.

[Delfos]

what is amazing is how none of this includes Phoenixia, nor any of your assumptions include relationships, whichever they are, with Honto.

[Myroria]

What would Honto's opinion on any of the scenarios Eluvatar posited be? Realistically it would not dive into a Cefnor-central war without a reason to.

[Khem]

What would Honto's opinion on any of the scenarios Eluvatar posited be? Realistically it would not dive into a Cefnor-central war without a reason to.

If involvement is assumed then the thing to uncover is relationships. I'd honestly like to see Delfos attempting to cry for peace throughout the war, emphasising the destruction it causes in the global economy.

[Eluvatar]

The main character of World War II was Germany and Italy as irredentist states taking on the rest of the major powers and being defeated. There was also however, simultaneously, Japan's attempt to take advantage of the situation to seize dominance over the West Pacific / East Asia.

That said, I'd be interested in suggestions of integrating Phoenixian conflict into the broader picture. Honto being the large island in the middle of New Delfos, it could conceivably launch some long-range naval assaults to seize resources. The easiest reason would be opportunism, but it could also possibly be allied (semi-opportunistically, semi-ideologically) with one side or the other.

[Myroria]

I think we should also pinpoint a definite starting year before we begin. I think 1946 would be a good place to start, but I'm not sure how anyone else feels about that.

[Delfos]

It's very likely Honto will be on the Ozian side, Team Oz ftw? Who..what..when..where...are this sides?

I've been working on the Honto wiki page ^(link) to help you guys learn about it.

1946 sounds cute but the build up seems more interesting. Honto will be starting serious expansion between 1920s and 1930s.

At 1930s I expect there are fights over former/current Cefnor colonies, which ones? Who against who? Honto will be supporting a side or two with interest of getting a piece of that *** (land).

If you look at the current Australis continent, the location of Nova Letonna, could it be that the Ozian land was either much larger before the great war or it started to rapidly expand against Nova Letonna or Resdaynia? Honto would surely be able to conquer part of that land while aiding a foreign power (very likely Ozia) to keep or expand theirs.

Are there more targets for Honto's expansionism? Unlikely, Cefnor is too far away for direct involvement, but a "Pearl Harbor attack" could serve people's RPs to join wars around that 1946 date (which I think it might be too late even with the fact our tech is earlier than earth's tech).
At the 1940s all this colonialism is in the brink of turning ugly, I expect any sort of "league of nations" to intervene against the new colonial powers (Honto included)

1910 - Honto "Reconquest" of Domeikuni territories in Delphic Bay
1920 - Honto "Domeikuni Restoration" direct conflicts with Kazjko Emirate and Boyen Republic in Delphic Bay
1930 - Honto Colonization of western Phoenixia and Australis
1940s~s~ - "Great War"

[Solclquial]

A loose timeline of the Marcos Philippines leading up to the flashpoint year:

1891-1899: Filipinos rebel against still unspecified foreign power. Fernando Marcos takes position as President-Leader and declares Caymanilad as capital. Regional republics such as the Federation of Sugbu and Republic of Negros join the Marcos government. The Mangsulong Rebellion's remnants act as a vigilante police force as Marcos consolidates his power.

1902: Deviating from IRL, no imperialist expansion annexes the Philippines yet we advance at a level par with reality, even better in some instances, like the fortification of the Camaynilac Bay Sea Wall and the island radio comms net.

1910: Fernando Marcos is replaced by Johnnieberto Marcos, his son. Mangsulong's forces are officially avowed as the Armed Forces of the Philippines.

1914-1918: Unsure. If there was a conflict similar to the Great War in real life, then the Filipinos would be non-aligned with it, albeit with minor trade dealings with the Allied side. Johnnieberto resumes the book-burning campaign.

1922: The nation's economy flourishes with the increasing influence of corporations, both state-funded and private. Government still has the last say. Mangsulong is disbanded fully, with all members either in the Armed Forces, Patalim (special forces), or sent to rehabilitation camps.

1928: Fernando Marcos dies. Nation mourns for the leader, and starts noticing the civil rights flaws of his successor.

1931: Johnnieberto Marcos steps down and elects his son, Johnbong, despite popular vote for a non-Marcos candidate. Public realization of a dictatorship becomes known quietly.

1935: Elections suspended. Meanwhile, development and upgrading of old military technology has headway. Naval and armed power prioritized with the industry. Filipinos experience a great rise in income which they freely spend.

1940: Isolationist stance dropped by Johnbong to open up relations with neighbors. (Please tell if you're interested in early-century relations.)

1943: Johnbong is shot and pronounced dead on arrival. Half-brother John Fernand Marcos steps in, yet seen as an unpopular choice. First recorded widescale protests soon after. Special forces mobilized fully in covert op; kill at least 25,000 dissidents in the first week. Nation silenced.

1945-1946: John Fernand Marcos drastically removes many rights in favor of an increasingly corporate, economic and military thrust. 

1946: Surprisingly, John Fernand Marcos makes announcement of his resignation as Interim President, only to reveal that his successor would be Johnbong Marcos, who altered the details of his death for [reasons disclosed.] Yet, the public is joyed with the surprise, and welcomes Johnbong to his position in power. Nation learns to understand living in a corporate police state under a more lenient Johnbong, although grudgingly. Filipino collective personality becomes more cynical, more conservative, more cold.

1948: After a year and a half of quiet, war begins elsewhere in Taijitu. Filipinos shocked to see the massive scale of war and impending danger of invasion. Johnbong mobilizes all Armed and reserve forces and stealthily makes deals with his governement's shadow heads of the nation concerning the creation of Panago, a clandestine division, and Sulpak, the public cover for Panago.