Taijitu
Taijitu World Building => Planning Room => Topic started by: Erno on January 26, 2015, 11:42:56 PM
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So, after one productive evening on the IRC (thanks a lot to everyone for help!), there was a bit of history thrown together for the little southern island nation, and I have been trying to think how to slowly get it onto the forums. Since creating separate threads for different aspects of it seems kinda counterproductive, triedto put it all into a single one.
Let's start in chronological order, with questions from me along the way? Dates are semi-random, so that can be changed around, though I'd like to keep rough lengths and amounts of periods the same.
pre-1850 - not really thought out as of yet, but there exist several separated tribes, mostly on the north of eastern island (Tarrell), which coexist, but do not form a single consolidated government of considerable size.
~1850..1911 - colonisation of the islands begins.
Main exports - gold and iron ores in easy-to-reach deposits.
Main questions - how exactly development of the area goes? Below the world average, most probably, but are there any exact parts that need to be gotten right? Also, which international effects a colonial nation can participate in (if any)?
1911..1915 - Liberation of the country as a result of a peace treaty (THAT I'm sure of remembering). Economy is same, with addition of small-scale oil drilling. Borders are closed for both people and products from abroad, government (consisting of a parliamentary body only) sponsors nationwide "cultural restoration" programmes.
Famine of 1915 leaves Dalarian with the need to open borders, including for foreign companies.
1915..1948 - Economy is based mostly on oil exports, and not going to change anytime soon. Most wells are operated by foreigners, but profits are enough to purchase and reverse engineer machinery. Amount of factories reprocessing imports rapidly grows, to a detriment of quality and safety.
Explosion on one of them, destroying a fair part of a city, and following undecided decisions by parliament, result in civil uprisings and introduction of "President" (stays here until a decent-sounding "local" term is made up) as an overseeing entity for Parliament.
"Cultural defence" continues in form of ban on imports of any media that is not on Dalari language.
1948..1976 - Oil is still first in profitability, followed closely by machinery construction. Most of the railway network, including bridge between the two main islands, is being built. Promotion of Dalari language and culture continue, but to a lesser degree now that most of the people were brought up when the programme was active. Constructions of own spaceport and international transit airport happen, but none bring the success awaited by the government. (from here on not so much questions, except for a repeating "does that fit into the main timeline even?")
1976..2004 - Nationalisation of oil drilling and mining industries begin in an effort to avoid raising taxes. Country for the first time begins to open up more, allowing books and movies to be made and distributed on foreign languages (TV and radio broadcasts still demand the full dub of all programs). Series of laws are being passed, consolidating power more around the president, and not parliament, but meet little protest as Dalarian goes through two decades of greater stability.
2004..201X - Most is yet to happen. Schools are now allowed to offer foreign languages as voluntary classes. Many are concerned with an outdated economy, still getting most of income from mining, which by some estimates is about to run out of resources.
Think that's it to begin with? Please, do tell if something needs some kind of fixing.
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From 1915 and on, the Allied States (I am sure others too) would be interested in investing into your country in exchange for oil and gold.
We'd probably be one of the most, if not the most, liberal in terms of what we're willing to sell you, tech-wise, so you wouldn't have to waste time and effort trying to reverse engineer a lot of stuff. >:D
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Hmh, we may then get something better for the space program than a bear on a huge catapult...
As long as licensed production comes at affordable prices, we're in!
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I love it. Works well with established history. The next question is what part of history you wish to interact with in storyline?
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Well, interactions are pretty much possible only from 1915 onwards, I guess, with the first and last at being self-sufficient. So anything that happens from here and can be connected to the country can do.
Or, if the question was about current ongoing events, then what are around in that time period?
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Hmm. I am not sure if much is going on in 1915. You could define that decade.
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1899- and on is quite up in the air at the start of the Great War. Actually, probably much earlier really, as we have yet to define what events led to the Great War even happening.
Being someone's colony, I'd imagine some of your people will be enlisted into your parent nation's army during the war, whether its Myroria or Oz (both on opposite sides of the two warring factions, as it currently stands).
Some of us are focusing at different parts of the timeline. Eluvatar seems to be working on 1700-1750 (http://forum.taijitu.org/planning-room/earvedui-ruisigusugoriar-eluvatumi/)time period (a big collab effort with Myroria and Oz), Myroria is scattered but largely focused on 1960s (http://forum.taijitu.org/pre-modern/household-(1968-1969)/)-1970s (http://forum.taijitu.org/pre-modern/novrith-conference-(1971)/), Delfos is working on modern times (2011 (http://forum.taijitu.org/modern-national-role-play/delfingrado-energy-council/), and I am partaking), al'Khem is working 1850 (http://forum.taijitu.org/planning-room/children-of-ta-revolution-(1850)-threnody-of-cinders-and-seeds-of-hope/) (which seems to another potential big collab effort), and I finished the creation of my nation 1780-1820 (http://forum.taijitu.org/pre-modern/the-beginnings/).
RPing here is very much what you make of it. Also its a very long/slow moving process at the current rate. If you're into Solo RP like Myroria then you can move as fast or as slow as you'd like. If its a collab effort then its moves as fast as its slowest poster, especially if you have to wait on that person's post to move forward.
Personally, I am here to work on my creative writing skills as I feel I have a great imagination but very poor at translating it to paper and of course, for personal amusement and enjoyment.
Oh and spend some time on the IRC, some of us do alot of OOC talk that doesn't always get relayed to the forums. You can also leave messages/questions to certain people via FriarTuck and they can get back to you at a later time doing the same.
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Hmm. I am not sure if much is going on in 1915. You could define that decade.
1915-1925? Sounds decent enough.
1899- and on is quite up in the air at the start of the Great War. Actually, probably much earlier really, as we have yet to define what events led to the Great War even happening.
Well, unless it extends the time too much (more than 2 decades), or moves the enddate later, then 1915 can be easily kept in place, though the time between that and independence seems allright now to me.
Being someone's colony, I'd imagine some of your people will be enlisted into your parent nation's army during the war, whether its Myroria or Oz
Riiiiight, how do we decide/officially declare the "parent" nation, once again? >.>
Some of us are focusing at different parts of the timeline. <..>
So, idea is to not intersect too much and not defy any of the events by accident? Noted.
<..> RPing here is very much what you make of it. Also its a very long/slow moving process at the current rate. <..>
Well, collaborative RP demands having several participants. In that age the only thing I can come up with so far is all the trade agreements, but that for some reason sounds boring-ish to RP fully? Correct me if I am, luckily, horribly wrong.
<..>spend some time on the IRC<..>
I do, it's just that in most cases talk is already ongoing and just breaking into the middle of it sounds bad xD But okay, thanks for a reminder.
And thanks for providing help so far to all of you, heh.
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I'm willing to be your colonizer; we'd probably settle there a few years after settling Resdaynia in the mid-1800s. You could achieve independence as a result of a peace treaty at the end of the Great War.
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I do, it's just that in most cases talk is already ongoing and just breaking into the middle of it sounds bad xD But okay, thanks for a reminder.
:laugh: I break into it all the time!
We all talk like we got ADHD in the IRC...if you got questions, just ask. :keke:
Riiiiight, how do we decide/officially declare the "parent" nation, once again?
Just ask someone, I think Oz is looking for nations he has/had influence on and Myroria seemed interested as well. Nevermind. :tai:
That time period for my nation was heavily focused on internal growth/development and building deeper trading relations with various nations inside and at the mouth of Cefnor (the big U shaped continent in the middle of the map). Otherwise I'd step up to the plate.
Well, collaborative RP demands having several participants. In that age the only thing I can come up with so far is all the trade agreements, but that for some reason sounds boring-ish to RP fully? Correct me if I am, luckily, horribly wrong.
Not at all...I believe there are 2 such conferences going on but they have stalled for the time being.
Well, unless it extends the time too much (more than 2 decades), or moves the enddate later, then 1915 can be easily kept in place, though the time between that and independence seems allright now to me.
Well we all agreed so far that the Great War is from 1899-1910, so your timeline works very well as it stands.
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Trade conferences are always a good topic for collaborative fiction; internal conflicts, like major political changes, elections, or revolutions, are also good. Anything that other people can contribute characters to is a good start.
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I'm willing to be your colonizer; we'd probably settle there a few years after settling Resdaynia in the mid-1800s. You could achieve independence as a result of a peace treaty at the end of the Great War.
We'll count it as decided then?
That time period for my nation was heavily focused on internal growth/development and building deeper trading relations with various nations inside and at the mouth of Cefnor
Well, given how I'm nowhere near it, that will probably be irrelevant, heh.
Not at all...I believe there are 2 such conferences going on but they have stalled for the time being.
well, then maybe it's not too bad of an idea. We'll see.
Trade conferences are always a good topic for collaborative fiction; internal conflicts, like major political changes, elections, or revolutions, are also good. Anything that other people can contribute characters to is a good start.
Hmh, thanks for examples! I'll probably go and think of something to try in a next day or two.
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I'm willing to be your colonizer; we'd probably settle there a few years after settling Resdaynia in the mid-1800s. You could achieve independence as a result of a peace treaty at the end of the Great War.
We'll count it as decided then?
Sure! :) Were you thinking of your independent nation being ruled by long-oppressed natives, like a central African nation, a nation ruled by a Myrorian settler majority/minority, like Australia or apartheid South Africa, or something in between?
If you want a more unique culture for your nation, I would probably suggest either the former or something like modern South Africa; if you want a nation more directly influenced by Myrorian culture we can do that too.
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Sure! :) Were you thinking of your independent nation being ruled by long-oppressed natives, like a central African nation, a nation ruled by a Myrorian settler majority/minority, like Australia or apartheid South Africa, or something in between?
Hm, short colonisation period and small initial population make all options kinda viable, huh. But given the laid-out idea, natives taking over would seem nore fitting. Unless, of course, there are Myrorian settlers that hate Myroria more than natives xD
If you want a more unique culture for your nation, I would probably suggest either the former or something like modern South Africa; if you want a nation more directly influenced by Myrorian culture we can do that too.
Myrorian influence to culture is a good idea, so thanks in advance for that.
As for the "primary" one, I could try if anyone is knowledgeable enough to consult, because otherwise I'll slip into generic European mess of a culture >.>
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Just some questions...
When you open to foreign investments in 1915, how developed is/are your...
mines/wells?
banking system - central bank/national currency?
infrastructure - utilities/roads/railroads/air and sea ports?
communications - telegraph?
Just wondering to brainstorm a bit for investments.
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Hm, I'll try and answer. Hopefully that's answers that are asked for.
Mines are largely using manual labour, with only few largest ones getting conveyor belts installed to haul ores up to the surface. Western island's southern areas are still undeveloped, but are believed to have enough gemstones and precious metals to cover for higher overhead of a colder region.
Oil wells are still in really early developement due to low national demand for it.
Tarrell City Central Bank was installed by constitution in 1911, and is the only one allowed to carry out international transactions by 1915. Not sure on currency and its exchange rates at the time yet, but it'll probably be cheaper than most in the region, because of undeveloped market and recent independency.
Electricity and water supply are available to most major cities and towns, with plans to reach for every settlement and mine before 1920. Roads, still mostly made of cobblestone on the south, connect all of the towns, since cross-country railway is yet to be joined together (by 1915, only north of western island has dense railway coverage, with east mostly having 2 lines, joining together in the capital city). Main seaport is Dorjevei, near the narrowest point between 2 main islands (map coming soon-ish?), is being renewed to allow larger vessels in. Country capital has the only airport in Dalarian large enough to accept aircraft capable of getting to the continent, so for other destinations, and faster service of southern mines, dirigibles are widely used.
Telegraph lines connect with each other all of the centers of provinces. Radio communication between distant cities is being experimented with, and enjoys receiving large grants from the central government, compareable to ones for aviation and automobile development.
Is that all that's needed?
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I can pay for what you need if you produce fedoras and guy fawkes masks for me.
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[14:36:07] <Eluvatar> hey, Dalarian, Myroria have you actually finalized Dalarian being a Myrorian colony pre-war?
[14:36:16] <@Myroria> I think so
[14:37:30] <Eluvatar> Was wondering if I could replace you in that one
[14:37:31] <Eluvatar> >__>
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[14:37:47] <@Myroria> if it's okay with dalarian sure
[14:39:16] <Eluvatar> Please also confirm that the relevant bits you've sad here are ok to post on the forum, Myroria, (and hopefully Dalarian if you reply :D )
[14:39:26] <@Myroria> haha yes
[14:39:28] <@Myroria> I confirm
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<Dalarian> Eluvatar, sorry, but once again, what did you want to ask?
[15:01:25] <Dalarian> or rather, me to reply to
[15:02:11] <Eluvatar> [14:36:07] <Eluvatar> hey, Dalarian, Myroria have you actually finalized Dalarian being a Myrorian colony pre-war?
[15:02:19] <Eluvatar> [14:37:30] <Eluvatar> Was wondering if I could replace [Myroria] in that one
[15:02:25] <Eluvatar> and also
[15:02:33] <Eluvatar> [14:39:16] <Eluvatar> Please also confirm that the relevant bits you've sad here are ok to post on the forum, Myroria, (and hopefully Dalarian if you reply :D )
[15:02:40] <Eluvatar> *said
[15:02:54] <Dalarian> Aha, okay
[15:04:11] <Dalarian> Replacement of colonial nation - guess could be done? It's not used in RPs yet, Wiki page for history and some of regions is always easy to edit, and what I have of post-colonial language for the country so far is far off from either anyways,,,
[15:04:25] <Dalarian> So if it is a thing, doubt it'll be noticed on a grand scale xD
[15:04:40] <Eluvatar> ok I'll post a possible outline for your consideration then
[15:04:48] <Dalarian> Sure
[15:04:51] <Eluvatar> and just to make sure, ok to post this IRC exchange at the top of the post I'm drafting?
[15:05:59] <Dalarian> Ya, why not?
[15:06:18] <Eluvatar> as the topic says, we generally frown upon (unauthorized) sharing of logs
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[15:06:59] <Dalarian> Well, it's stuff that's relevant to general timeline, not me describing a plan of a raid on ISP office xD
[15:07:41] <Dalarian> So ya, if anything I wrote there is needed, then you can
So here's a possible timeline outline I would like to suggest, for your revision:
- 300-900: (Sometime in that range): First Dalarians arrive on the islands by boat, divide into tribes and settle them.
- 1680-1730: Finnish merchants and explorers establish outposts in Dalarian, trading Finnish and Cefish goods for furs and ???.
- ~1730: Finnland annexed to Eluvatar.
- 1730-1850: Finnish merchants joined by Minosian and Edain merchants from Eluvatar. Trade increases. Unsavory trading practices (see Wampum for inspiration, perhaps) and aggressive land grabs for mining lead to small wars, which lead to merchants hiring mercenaries including Ozians and ultimately intervention by the Eluvataran central government.
- ~1840: Gold rush intensifies land grabs and brushwars. Large(r) migration of men seeking fortune.
- ~1850: Royal Confederacy of Eluvatar annexes Dalarian in a treaty with the Tribes, establishing a system of local government subordinate to the Royal Confederacy. Mercenaries and tribal militias disarmed. Mining claims to be regulated and taxed by the local government.
- 1850-1898: Iron mines develop, as does an attached ore refining industry. (Refined ores are still mostly shipped to Eluvatar for smelting into iron and steel).
- ~1860: Easily discoverable gold exhausted. Gold rush ends.
- ~1870: Eluvataran Royal Navy base established in Dalarian.
- ~1880: Mass labor activity (strike?) leads to local government passing ordinances (to protect labor|to restrict labor organizing).
- ~1890 and/or ~1896 and/or ~1915: South pole expeditions from Dalarian.
- 1898-1910: Great War. Dalarian largely cut off from Eluvatar. One or more raids or invasions by Letonnese colonials (?). Mutual assistance with Myrorian Resdaynia. Eluvataran military in Dalarian forced to rely heavily on local government, its power strengthens. Royal Confederacy grants more autonomy out of necessity.
- 1910-1915: ??? leads to outright independence. (Near-famine Eluvatar is unwilling to invade.)
(No suggestions yet for further details for your already quite good post-1915 timeline).
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I'll write an expanded reply tomorrow, so for just a couple of points
1) for 1680-1730 - probably add whaling and goods transit (as discussed)?
2)For 1850-1898 - so, not too much on infrastructure and industry development of the country during that time, right?
3)South Pole would be better for 1915..1917, unless there is a really good reason/proposal for earlier ones?
4)Given famine in Eluvatar, and Dalarian's dependance on food imports, could be that => rationing => protests => Eluvatar government allowing for independence by pressure from publicity?
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1976..2004 - Nationalisation of oil drilling and mining industries begin in an effort to avoid raising taxes. Country for the first time begins to open up more, allowing books and movies to be made and distributed on foreign languages (TV and radio broadcasts still demand the full dub of all programs). Series of laws are being passed, consolidating power more around the president, and not parliament, but meet little protest as Dalarian goes through two decades of greater stability.
This part had me thinking. Would AS (Allied States) interests be compensated during your nationalization process?
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I guess we would have to give in, unless Dalarian's share in oil production is big enough to cause disturbances compareable to 1973 oil crisis (doubtfully)?
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The compensation we'd seek would be for the commercial property, such as the machinery, vehicles, and buildings. TBH, you don't have to. A lot of nationalization (in socialist states) was government seizure of private companies without compensation. I had hoped our relations would be well enough (after 60+ years) that some compensation would be offered. ;D
As far as I know, you and Khem are the world producers of oil. So I'd imagine your share to be quite influential, especially since you're outside of the Basin.
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Well, since Dalarian doesn't try to become socialist, so they could reluctantly agree to proceed percentage from sales until the cost of equipment is paid off. Reluctance could be through threats of cutting off supplies... But frankly, it'll be shooting ourselves in the foot with oil being major export.
...Unless, of course, other oil producers pile in and help ;D But that makes Dalarian sound more important than I envisioned.
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Dalarian is a sizeable country, and I think it could make for some more interesting stories if it becomes a major oil producer.
The Royal Confederacy would also have interests, I'm sure, but they certainly would not intervene militarily against nationalization. They could suggest a defense treaty with trade rules clauses, but I imagine the Dalarian government wouldn't want such impositions :P
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Percentage of sales until costs are covered is a very reasonable deal to me. You'll be getting the Family Discount, no worries. :hug: Plus I would imagine, with your oil/gold/mining sales, you'd pay us off fairly easily and quickly.
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Dalarian is a sizeable country, and I think it could make for some more interesting stories if it becomes a major oil producer.
The Royal Confederacy would also have interests, I'm sure, but they certainly would not intervene militarily against nationalization. They could suggest a defense treaty with trade rules clauses, but I imagine the Dalarian government wouldn't want such impositions :P
1) Nice to hear that! Now, to actually try and do anything with this all xD
2)Trade rule clauses do sound bad, especially if they come with a long-term obligations :P
Percentage of sales until costs are covered is a very reasonable deal to me. You'll be getting the Family Discount, no worries. :hug: Plus I would imagine, with your oil/gold/mining sales, you'd pay us off fairly easily and quickly.
A)Family Discount? Wooh, it sounds even better than the Loyalty Club™ card!
B)Yah, it should bring in substantial funds, especially since (I guess) most of major infrastructure projects would be finished by late 1960s.