Taijitu
Forum Meta => Treaty Conferences/Organisations => Role Play => Archived Role Play Boards => Archive => IPO => Topic started by: Rabarac on November 06, 2007, 05:59:07 PM
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The IPO Delegation of Rabarac has become sincerely discontent with the current definition of observer status. As delineated by the previous Administrator, the Ipod of Loyan, nations with "observer" status in the IPO were to quote, "observe only," and not to participate in deliberations. I see this as an insult to the nations who are examining the IPO for potential membership, but more importantly, it is a stumbling block in the way of progress that is the purpose of this Organization. How can a forum for rational deliberations restrict the ability of interested parties to speak on the issue without being hypocritical? Many nations do not have the resources to fully support the social, cultural, and economic engineering programs that the organization sponsors, yet their people yearn for collective peace just as we all do. We should not be disenfranchising those who are pursuing peace, simply because the mounting economic burden of membership is not an option. While I agree that observer status does not indicate the ability to vote and be represented among the many nations, being merely allowed to participate in the deliberations and hopefully influence those who do vote to do so wisely does not seem like much too ask. Since the public deliberations of the IPO are, well, public information in any case, the current system gives absolutely no "meat on the bones" to observer status. There is truly no difference between observer status and non-member status. I propose that reforms be implemented to allow Observer status to truly be the midway point between voting member and staring, silent non-member. This current administration could benefit greatly in granting observer nations the privilege of addressing the IPO Assembly.
OOC: I'm worried I don't have much to RP without getting involved somewhere, and since Loyan shut me up last time, well, I mean, I haven't posted in quite awhile. Moreover, the UN Observer nations/representatives participate in deliberations like the members, they just don't vote.
Note: Not to be confused with "observer" missions like the one headed to Xyraeli colonies.
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Hear hear!
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The current administration is interested in a efficient proposal to redefine the status of External Observers. Because of the membership priorities and privileges, Observer nations must not interfere with a current discussion, but they are free to comment or express any doubt in form of question to a member or to the administration in order understand and relate the issue in discussion.
The IPO External Observer Delegation of Rabarac must understand that without a membership it will be hard to influence any issue in discussion, and shouldn't take a weight in the resolution of such issue, because the External Observer Delegation isn't included in the global interest of such resolution.
Shortly, only a member is part of the global (international) resolution, and there is no interest beyond or outside the membership universe of this organization. But, the delfian organization sees that this cannot be a restrictive or discriminating organization, that even external nations should be heard, helped or have a word in this collective, which is practically the work we've been doing.
We would like to hear your proposal, and if interesting, it might change the way an external word can reach a global resolution, since the Administration itself will propose a new bill to redefine the status of observers as requested here.
ooc: I'm asking you to make the dirty work, make a legislation form of your request, and if well expressed, you have your redefination.
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ooc: Observer - A delegate sent to observe and report on the proceedings of an assembly or a meeting but not vote or otherwise participate.
American Heritage Dictionary
ic: What you currently ask for is Associate status. I suggest you talk to IPO Administrator if you wish to gain Associate privileges within IPO.
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If Associate status can participate in the discussions and Observers cannot...why have Observers?
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Because observers are supposed to be neutral and only report to another authority.
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No, not observers like the ones in Xyrael, I mean observer nations in the IPO.
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We should not be disenfranchising those who are pursuing peace, simply because the mounting economic burden of membership is not an option.
If I may address this concern let me explain a misunderstanding you seem to have.
We can and will not force an undersigned nation to fulfill it’s duties in an unrealistic way.
If they sign a treaty it must be understood that they fulfill it to the best of their abilities within realistic limitations.
For further fulfillment of duty's resulting from such treaty's, that is what the other nations are there to help you with.
There will be checks to prevent abuse of this be assured but the general rule here is that you do what you can with what you have.
We can not ask a nation that is willing to better the access of it's people to water to ruin itself in the process.
About the status of observers I wish to propose the following.
That if the observers wish to adress the assembly in questions about their countrys probelms than we should have a weekly or monthly meeting were they may present their questions before the assembly.
Surely many nations would like to know our opinion on their problems before they join.
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this kind of observers is for some group, like a nation, have privileged first hand information about a meeting. I don't think there is Associate status in IPO, only member and observer, but that's quick to fix. Why not becoming a member? I think you haven't followed all the latest discussions or you would see your sovereignty fear is not applicable.
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Then, switch the Feniexian Observer to Member status, please...
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Feniexia is already a member.
And Rabarac, the purpose of Observer status is for RP reasons, allowing you to disclose information that happens in IPO meetings. Non-observers can't just magically find out about stuff.
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Yes they can. How can you tell whether or not your secretary is sending the recording to your office or to an apartment building two blocks away filled with enemy spies? IPO is really, really easy to spy on, especially since, if we're anything like the UN, we have a gigantic TV screen which super villains can appear on to eavesdrop or make death threats with at will.
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How can you tell whether or not your secretary is sending the recording to your office or to an apartment building two blocks away filled with enemy spies?
Uuuhm..uuhmm :-[ uuhmm ISO??? But I ain't telling. Naaah. ;D :-P
Edit: Besides what do we have to hide?
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I can tell because Terranger hanged a "No Spies Allow" sign at the from door of IPO HQ.
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Was a good idea I must say so.
(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z138/Pachamama_2007/Spysign.jpg)
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Let Rabarac have a shot, we can all argue about this attempt of changing the status.
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Besides, as Myroria has proven, you can't actually stop someone from being a part of these discussions. It can only be easier to participate when you don't have to use a megaphone from street level.
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Besides, as Myroria has proven, you can't actually stop someone from being a part of these discussions. It can only be easier to participate when you don't have to use a megaphone from street level.
Looks out at the man standing in the street yelling trough a megaphone while being draped in a Myrorian flag.
"Agreed but it is so much more fun"
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specially when we are in this terrangar tall building...with sound-proof.
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Looks up in shock. "Didn't anybody tell him that those windows are soundproof.?"
O.K. I am getting carried away with silliness here sorry
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My point is that the current observer status is completely useless; why pay the expenses of continuing to send a delegation when we can simply find the details of the deliberations in the annual report online? There is no distinction between observer and non-member. Rabarac is surrounded by many IPO members, and has military, diplomatic, and economic relations with many more members, who are affected by the resolutions passed. We cannot pretend that IPO does not affect those nations who are not members, for it does. Rabarac has a vested interest in the decisions of the IPO, but not at the expense of deferring to the authority of any supranational organization with, currently, extremely vague goals and methods. Improving observer status would allow the concerns of nations to be heard by the IPO body, while maintaining a nation's sovereign decision to abstain from the IPO itself.
This is not a discussion of the legitimacy of a nation's decision to not be in the IPO; if that decision is marginalized or looked down on, if a nation is condemned, openly or internally, for remaining outside the IPO, then the whole purpose of the IPO will be subverted. IPO is not an elitist club of nations who can use their unified clout to bully nations into joining or face complete isolation. But this is not the discussion.
Clearly we can all see that IPO's actions do affect non-member nations, if not directly, then still indirectly and powerfully. It would be undemocratic to not allow those nations who choose to not be full members for whatever reasons to have their concerns heard in the deliberation process. I will gladly author a resolution if there is a member nation who would propose it. *Looks to Cantr.*
OOC: This is how observer nations work in the UN, for similar reasons, I imagine. They can participate in deliberations, but not vote.
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But you have a choice, member, observer or none of above. If you wish so much to participate, why don't you become a member?
I see what you want, but I yet do not see an effective way to propose a bill.
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This is not a discussion of the legitimacy of a nation's decision to not be in the IPO; if that decision is marginalized or looked down on, if a nation is condemned, openly or internally, for remaining outside the IPO, then the whole purpose of the IPO will be subverted. IPO is not an elitist club of nations who can use their unified clout to bully nations into joining or face complete isolation.
Sir, this is indeed the discussion. I thank you for saying what these buffoons, paranoid beyond reason, cannot. Who honestly cares if there are spies within our walls. We are a peace organization, is there suddenly something we must hide from the Public, is peace that fragile? The actions of the IPO to date are NOT consistent with the ideals and beliefs upon which she was founded! This Organization is slowly become more and more an alliance of convenience that accomplishes little beyond talk! If all we want to do is talk, then Observer states should do so as well. How can we adequately create world peace without listening to the voices of the world?
The very notion that Loyan, a member of the PI, initially doctored this article, leads the Illuminate to believe that he intended it as a tool to manipulate this body for his own personal agenda. When one can not speak, then one can not object. We must allow opinion, without this the IPO is nothing more than a dictatorship of many.
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But you have a choice, member, observer or none of above. If you wish so much to participate, why don't you become a member?
I see what you want, but I yet do not see an effective way to propose a bill.
New Delfos, so you are along the policy of "If you can't beat us, join us"? Is this not the kind of elitist policy which encourages dissparities between the nations of the world and further leads to war? What if a member of the IPO objected to the membership of Rabarac, and he was allowed only observer status, would one nations objection be enough to quiet the opinion of another? Is that democracy??
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ooc: nice try
ic: This is a matter of order in the house, if we let anyone in our building there won't be any order, people will sit where they want. We cannot allow that external interests influence our organization, INCLUDING PI! But we do broadcast most of the forums and news, so yes, Observer status is practically useless. We can eliminate that status, but then you would have to leave the building if you are not a member. That's not what we want, we want inclusion, whoever wants, even terrorist groups, can come orderly if attributed the Observer status, to observe civilized nations building world-peace. If you want to build world-peace with us, just join the organization.
If any nation wants to join IPO, there shall be an admission poll.
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"Honored observer from Rabarac . First I see no reason why non member states should not be allowed to ask questions to the delegates during a meeting. Second may I ask for your reason not to become a member but remain an observer instead?"
Talman Yar looked at the envoy.
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So, allow the Illuminate to comprehend this. We are allowing them seats so they may watch our elitist body in action without voice or opinion? Are they still allowed free thought? Do they get a concessions stand as well, because the Illuminate was not aware that the forum of politics had become a spectators sport. To dissallow their opinion and force them into compliance is barbaric. Maybe they should write letters, but couldn't they do that themselves from the comfort of their embassy? Couldn't they just watch the news? The impotence of Observer status means that those non-members who are not spoken for will never be spoken for, and this body will NEVER be allowed to hear from those victims of war. How can we send in humanitarian funding to nations we do not allow to speak? Are we to remain quiet when nations go to war with non-members because the non-members have no voice to protest? This body needs to represent the world. If membership is the only way, then the Illuminate is severely disheartened with this organization moreso than it already is.
And should they become a member, they would fall directly under the jurisprudence of our laws and authority, and could in the future be forced to comply with each of them. Should it be voted that an International Police Agency is established, with the authority to free reign over members of the IPO, then this could attack Rabarac's sovereign right to police his own people as he pleases according to his laws, and not our own. Perhaps his nation is, like the Illuminate, unsure of the true intent of this Organization.
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If you want to build world-peace with us, just join the organization
Build world peace? This organization has amassed and trained intervention forces and brought to bear hard consequences for one side of a conflict, while blindly looking away from the other nation involved in war, a clear silent consent and justification of their decision to wage reactionary war. Now they are wasting time and resources investigating the nuclear or chemical weapons of sovereign nations which have not been used in recent history, or sending groups to Xyraeli's colonies, or establishing disease research centers, all of which must be funded from sovereign nations and their citizens, who are now resources for the IPO's goals. You may talk about furthering human rights, but what the IPO has done is objectified human beings into resources and statistics. Moreover, since the creation of the IPO and through its actions, the world has come much farther from peace than it began! How dare you demand that Rabarac join a wayward organization with no foreseeable benefit to the citizens of Rabarac, an organization which robbed Rabarac of her ability to negotiate fairly with her neighbors and military, diplomatic, and trade partners in the first place? This is tyranny, and Rabarac will no longer have any part of it if there is no sufficient observer status. Good day, delegates.
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"Honored Xyraeli delegate" Yar was getting disgusted at the permanent ranting of the Xyraeli man.
"If you could stop you fiery speech of righteous anger and take a few steps back with us maybe you might see that i have already addressed this problem. I have proposed that non members may speak in meetings and ask questions. But allowing them to vote they should become full members. For the simple reason that you become a member of this organization if you are willing to submit yourself to our goals. It should have been clear from the beginning. What good I ask you is if we allow anyone to speak. Even those who are doing so only to attack our efforts, stall our actions and try to sink this organization"
"We already have you for this" he added in his mind.
"By joining this organization we can say that those nations are willing to work with us and not just vote to sink this ship. It needs dedication for peace. If you do not have the dedication to join our effort what good is it going to do?"
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"Rabarac delegate. Did you come here in hopes to bring this organisation to it's downfall"
Yar had stood up.
"What was your reason for coming here. I have heard all of your reasons you are against us. You want to talk? Then do so. State your opinion and tell us what we could do better. What should we change and how should we address, yes solve the problems you are talking about."
"There must be limit to the shit we are going to take" Yar thought.
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ooc: Looks like to me this IPO is becoming another League of Nations. Built with good intentions, but has failed to live up to those intentions. If this one fails then maybe the next one will work.
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ooc : To be honest I think there are people here who want to prove that such organizations do not work and they will try everything to drive home their point.
They don't want peace and they don't want war. They just want us to fail. It is - I believe- called a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Or I am the only one who saw that he ignored any offer at a solution?
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ooc: i'm not trying to ruin this organization, i'm trying to make people realize that you can't just sit back, do nothing, and watch peace flourish. It doesn't work like that. But we aren't going about in any meaningful way to promote peace, we aren't promoting trade, reconstruction, higher education, the only thing worth doing atm is the center for disease, and there's 2 chairmen/women on that committee, making me further skeptical. I'm also trying to make sure nations remain nations and not some sort of member of international union.
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ooc Uhm i wasn't referring to you with the ooc statement. My In Play character however sees things differently trough his eyes. So he will keep an eye on you. ;D
Also for me he was going something like this.
"I want the red car"
"Sure yiu can have it"
"If you don't give me the red car you are an idiot"
"I told you you can have the red car."
"Asshole. i knew you wouldn't give me the red car. You idiot"
It was a bit too obvious he just wanted to crash the party. At least from my point of view. May be a misinterpretation.
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ooc: you're already driving all conclusions together saying we are this and that and we don't allow their voice or whatever. As far as i know, this organization is TOO FREE for the sake of it. People can do whatever they want, and Loyan has prooven that. Yes, we made several conclusions that all parties to be accepted and they were ignored for a political arguing that cannot be applied in an organization of nations. This didn't fail, this isn't failing, there are just people with FREEDOM OF SPEECH that say we are already broken apart, without no authority on the issue. Don't you see you have the freedom you are asking already?
ic: Unless the delegates from the nation of Rabarac finally come up with a good plan to redefine "Observer" status, the administration sees no point to continue arguing, since all problems have been exposed, and now people are just flaming problems that have nothing to do with this issue.
Don't try to make this organization look fool, you already have what you are asking for, we gave you options. Make an effective plan to redefine the status, leave, or become a full member of the organization. Continuing arguing in this matter isn't going to change the status because the proposal you offered isn't good enough. Make something better.
And we can't fully understand why you want to participate in the debates as Observer, and not as a Member, so i would say, the best thing you can do is to apply as a member.
Xyraeli Delegate, this isn't your home country, we are part of an organization of nations for the cooperation to world-peace. Trying to create problems nonexistent in this organization isn't going to solve anything. I already addressed that, if you wish our organization to follow a different path, apply a project for the 15th of November Administration. I don't see another way to make us follow your desired path.
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I note that the Pachamaman delegate has already assumed that Rabarac was responding to his comments as opposed to the comments of others. I don't believe Rabarac wants anymore than what you have proposed. And Rabarac has a very good reason for remaining outside this organization; they as a people don't believe we are doing anything for human rights or world peace and don't want their money drained off into the bureaucratic processes involved in executing these.
Concerning your outrage about Winter Shield; once war broke out, it was proposed that we send Winter Shield to support Canada; this motion was defeated by a vast majority under the reasoning that the objective of the peace force; peace, had already been lost, and sending more soldiers couldn't possibly restore it.
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OOC: Guys, guys, calm down, I'm not doing this to live out my own political ideology on these boards. There are more twists to this story coming along shortly. On a side note, seeing as Brahms has already left, continuing to make demands of him seems kind of silly to me. However, if he were still here he would point out that he did in fact propose that he be allowed to write a resolution defining observer status better if it would actually get before the body of the IPO, since, as an observer, he has no capacity to put it up for a vote, or submit it as a possible administrative project himself. In response, Delfos came out and said "Join us or go home," and didn't comment on Brahms' proposition to write a resolution.
Pachamama has absolutely no authority to tell Rabarac that he can speak now; Loyan, as Administrator, said he couldn't, and until an Administrator, or a general vote, changes that, that is how it stands, which is why Rabarac has refrained from commenting on all the other issues. I didn't think this would be a testy issue at all, I just wanted to post in the other threads, but I'm definitely going to have fun with it now that it is!
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Actually I have that authority to ask you a question and you can talk to me. This is not a military unit.
The chairman is not our commander. If I want to talk to you or ask you something I can do that.
And I will try and define how this organization goes about it's business when it is my turn.
But what this organization never will be is a place were everyone just waltzes in and make demands.
I don't accept people who join a club and say. "I wanna join your club but I will do whatever I want."
This organization will have rules. And if you think it dictatorial that anyone should follow those rules then be in for the hot seat.
If you don't want rules then move to a Negasphere. But don't complain if your bones turn to flowers and your brain suddenly stops working above + 20°C.
The demands you made in the end were ridiculous and could only lead to what has happened. if any representative of me would act like that I would shoot him myself.
Also I am irked by your denial of what I said in your favor.
You only acted upon negative statements.
EDIT. As a summary I have the feeling that you actively were working towards this outcome.
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Pacha, he asked to be allowed to participate in discussions without being part of the IPO. He didn't want to vote, or be admin, or anything like that, he just wanted to let his voice be heard, on issues that matter (as opposed to this, which only matters because if it goes through it will allow Rabarac to matter). Is that a sin?
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i tried to assist him in this which he generously ignored.
If what you say was really what he wanted he would have taken the chance to work with me and Xyrael on his case.
he had TWO supporters.
He has clearly shown that he is unwilling to compromise, unwilling to take up an offer for help and unwilling to be flexible.
Not the best traits for a diplomat.
May they should send a real diplomat next time? might get them better results.
So what he wanted was to make demand in the hope that he would be rebutted. And as that didn't work, because he suddenly got support from me and Xyrael he ignored us and walked out. He did not even take up my offer to talk. And the reason he gave for this shows that he is unwilling to take even the risk of speaking his mind when offered the chance to do so.
There is a wordplay for this but unfortunately it only works in German. It would get lost in translation.
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Okay back to In Play.
Delegate Yar turned towards the assembly.
"Well that didn't go to well. I say this organization needs guidelines and rules people can read and understand before the come up here. Up to now we are hanging in the Air. I would like to write up a proposal. And.."
he turned to wards the Xyraeli delegate" ..as you are part of this organization I ask for your assistance. You are a reasonable man with a different point of view. Maybe together we can produce something that will help us in the future.If you can so well point out our shortcomings maybe you can help us overcome them as well. I ask the assembly to give us a week of time to prepare this proposal before we present it to you for review."
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In response, Delfos came out and said "Join us or go home," and didn't comment on Brahms' proposition to write a resolution.
You must be blind then.
to the lack of a good resolution i said:
But you have a choice, member, observer or none of above. If you wish so much to participate, why don't you become a member?
I see what you want, but I yet do not see an effective way to propose a bill.
the first line I've put int his topic was:
The current administration is interested in a efficient proposal to redefine the status of External Observers.
my final post was:
ic: Unless the delegates from the nation of Rabarac finally come up with a good plan to redefine "Observer" status, the administration sees no point to continue arguing, since all problems have been exposed, and now people are just flaming problems that have nothing to do with this issue.
Don't try to make this organization look fool, you already have what you are asking for, we gave you options. Make an effective plan to redefine the status, leave, or become a full member of the organization. Continuing arguing in this matter isn't going to change the status because the proposal you offered isn't good enough. Make something better.
And we can't fully understand why you want to participate in the debates as Observer, and not as a Member, so i would say, the best thing you can do is to apply as a member.
I said exactly the opposite of what you suggest.
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Actually I have that authority to ask you a question and you can talk to me. This is not a military unit.
Well, duh, I can talk to you, I can address any nation I wish, but under the current rulings, observer nations cannot address the general IPO body regarding proposed resolutions that will affect them; they are to sit in silence as trade regulations and other such matters are decided. I never tried to be able to address individual nations, I was asking the ability to deliberate like the other delegations, just not vote.
But what this organization never will be is a place were everyone just waltzes in and make demands.
I don't accept people who join a club and say. "I wanna join your club but I will do whatever I want."
This organization will have rules. And if you think it dictatorial that anyone should follow those rules then be in for the hot seat.
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The demands you made in the end were ridiculous and could only lead to what has happened. if any representative of me would act like that I would shoot him myself.
Also I am irked by your denial of what I said in your favor.
You only acted upon negative statements.
I never claimed to make any demands; I wanted the ability to speak Rabarac's concerns to the body of the IPO, that is all. Just for the record, I am asking for the observer status of the UN observer nations; if that is anarchy and chaos to you then your argument holds up, if not, I ask nothing. I haven't posted in any IPO thread since I was told not to by Loyan, I was obeying the rules that you claim I have such disregard for. I was petitioning for that to be officially changed, that is all. Instead everyone questions why I don't just be a member. Uh, RP reasons, maybe?!? I'm playing a libertarian Republic which doesn't think too highly of supranational organizations; if I, as a player, wanted to bring it down from the inside, I would be a member already and vote accordingly!
the proposal you offered isn't good enough. Make something better.
I didn't make a proposal, I offered an argument. A proposal would go something like this;
The IPO "Observer Status" Resolution:
The Body of the IPO,
Realizing the efforts of past administrations to reduce possibly chaotic deliberations,
Simultaneously realizing the effect of IPO decisions on nations not interested in joining the organization,
Recognizing the rights of these non-member nations to have some say in what will be affecting them, as an organization of peace cannot operate in its own interest alone,
Does hereby
Define "observer" as a nation who is not a member but will nevertheless have a delegation in the general assembly,
Extends to said "observer" nations' delegates the privilege of addressing the IPO body during deliberations,
Withholds the right of said delegates the privilege and honor of voting, administrating, or appointing members to ruling councils in IPO organizations,
Affirms the necessary step of a confirmation vote of the IPO body in order to admit a new Observer nation, (regardless of whether or not this is the case for membership applicants)
In General Assembly of the International Peace Organization, November, 2007 (or whatever year it's supposed to be).
That would be the resolution, Delfos, but as you said, you saw no way for this to be proposed, as things are done by 'Administrative projects' in the IPO anyway, and not by resolutions from members.
No, Delfos, you didn't address IC Brahms' proposition to write a resolution that would then be proposed by a full member. Frankly, that wouldn't happen anyway, since the only thing that happens in the IPO is the current Administrative projects, unless I am misunderstanding the system. If the administration is interested, then make it an 'administrative project', propose the miniscule change I proposed, and let the body vote on it, for there is no other way that things happen in the IPO.
The only proposed change I made was that I be allowed to post in the topics, nothing more, nothing less, and that is what you call 'not good enough.' If that is the case, then I must be a member to influence treaties, laws, and mandates that will affect my trade relations with an IPO member, and IPO quickly becomes a self-absorbed, elitist club, disregarding the concerns of nations who do not agree and are not members. I have told you why Rabarac does not agree with the IPO, concerns which no one has addressed thus far, and that is why I will not be a member (well, well, you'll see). The question is this; does the IPO believe that nations who are not fully committed to (the IPO's brand of) peace (by being members) have the right to address their concerns in a civil manner before the IPO, or can they be ignored because they don't agree?
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no, anyone can propose anything. As you, if you had the attention, would see, I proposed stuff during Loyan administration, he did the same with mine, anyone can do it, even you by making this topic of discussion as you can see. The Administrator has no power regarding the limits of obligations of each nation. This was already discussed.
You didn't make any good offer, as i said i wouldn't do the dirty work for you, if you wanted something done just proposed to me and i would publish the proposal for the application of the bill. Instead, you just followed Xyraeli lead to degrade the image of our organization without any base of truth, even Cantr said, most of yours and Xyraeli accusations are inapplicable from the moment we failed all proposals regarding aiding PI. As far as i know, the Peace forces are still in New Delfos, and the Canadian freighters are still there too.
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You and Loyan are both part of the IPO. There's no precedent for non-members proposing anything, and further, he didn't say he wanted to propose anything, he just wanted to talk about proposals other people made. When he tried to do that, Loyan, the current admin, stopped him. No one argued that he should be allowed to speak. Perhaps this is just another case of Loyan using administrative powers he never actually had, but if so, it definitely wasn't addressed the way the DSA's expulsion was.
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ooc:i thought the vote on the expulsion of DSA had failed and he is a current member of IPO. At least the sanctions did:
For
Greater Canadian Empire Inglo-Scotia Loyan 3 27.3%
Against
Cantr Capconia Osamafune Pachamama Varkour Xyrael 6 54.5%
he wants to talk about stuff, sure go ahead, i never stopped him, but he wanted Observers to have more "rights" than the ones they have, and i said, make a proposal to legislate and the bill might pass. Otherwise everything will continue as it is. And as you can see, the discussion clearly parted both ways, saying he can't or he could do stuff during our meetings. I can't decide that for myself, that's why i asked him for a good proposal, otherwise there wouldn't be any change. Guess what, he ran away. No proposal have appeared yet, until then, this matter is definitely closed to me./ooc
ooc2: btw, look who voted in For...do you notice anything? All who did vote For are PI members, all who didn't aren't. That's what i meant with peers holding the neutrality of this organization. This is a direct proof against those who say we favor PI.
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Yes, the vote failed, but Loyan attempted to expel the DSA without a vote. And Loyan similarly revoked Rabarac's right to deliberate in the IPO without vote. The difference being that people cared about the DSA being expelled and did not care about Rabarac being silenced.
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People did care. You just choose to ignore this.
Xyrael was bringing it up and I was trying to assist you. :(
If you had played your hand well you had tried to get these who would be willing to support you further on your side and have them act in your interests.
Diplomacy is a bit more complex than walking in and saying "I feel left out, do something "
Would have made a nice RP and helped to bring your nation in.
Still I can't shake the feeling that you never wanted this to work out.
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IP
"If the current administrator would allow me I may go to Rabarac and have a talk with their ministry of foreign affairs. Maybe there is still a change to recover this situation."
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ic: I see no way to stop you, not that i don't want you to go, but you're really free to do it. There are no rights loss from a forfeit, he's free to become a member or observer again, and if he wants Observer status to be redefined then he will have to show proof Observers can really become more active. His show of diplomacy was quite rude, and frankly it haven't made me change my view of our path. Well, good luck.
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no, anyone can propose anything. As you, if you had the attention, would see, I proposed stuff during Loyan administration, he did the same with mine, anyone can do it, even you by making this topic of discussion as you can see. The Administrator has no power regarding the limits of obligations of each nation. This was already discussed.
You didn't make any good offer, as i said i wouldn't do the dirty work for you, if you wanted something done just proposed to me and i would publish the proposal for the application of the bill. Instead, you just followed Xyraeli lead to degrade the image of our organization without any base of truth, even Cantr said, most of yours and Xyraeli accusations are inapplicable from the moment we failed all proposals regarding aiding PI. As far as i know, the Peace forces are still in New Delfos, and the Canadian freighters are still there too.
I friggin' proposed to be allowed to post in the IPO posts, that is all! What dirty work were you asking from me? You were the one who turned this into a badgering fest about why I'm not a member and how much my 'proposal' wasn't good enough, when I hadn't proposed anything officially. I asked you how I could propose something, if I could have a sympathetic member (i.e. Pacha or Cantr) propose it, seeing as the only rules on the books about observers is that observers are to "observe only," and that was my intention. If you wanted to say that observers could propose something, you should have made that clear, but instead, you said you saw no way for this proposal to go through, and I asked you about an option, and you didn't reply. What was I supposed to do? Sure, now you say you would have done it, but that was not in any of your previous posts. You said my proposal wasn't good enough, and then said that I should just be a member if I cared so much. That's hardly what I would call 'interested' in helping observers. My accusations about wasting resources in meaningless projects like Disease Research, Xyraeli observers, and the worthless human rights bill, none of which is a structure about peace, still stand, and don't try and fool yourself into believing that creating a buffer between Dysanii and GCE benefited anyone but the PI. Furthermore, if you're watching my News thread, you will see that this is all serving a purpose, so you are right; I have a reason for this not to go through now. Just to be clear, I told you what I wanted, why, and how I could do it, you said it wasn't good enough and said I should just join. How did you expect me to respond? Gah, I'm so sick of defending myself from these ad hominem attacks. You can believe what you want about what I should have done, but you've got to realize that I don't give a snot about the IPO, personally, I think it's a laughing stock at best. But I will definitely capitalize on the opportunity to pursue my own RP interests.
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ooc:I didn't read much more from here:
I asked you how I could propose something
I told you to propose something HERE. I wanted you to write a friggin' proposal for a bill about Observer Status, which is good enough we would do a Poll about it. I don't care anymore, and as you can see, almost no one was against Observers being active in the damn discussions. Now stop filling this topic with nonsense and speak with the Terrangarian guy.
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Delfos, you should probably read the rest.
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I knew everything he said. No news.
Just clearing that, if i said this wasn't going through it was an OOC, or maybe not, but yet it was a comment to the lack of fine proposal i requested in my first post. And from the beginning you made comments that made me and others believe your were only here to destabilize, it was prooved with just a small pressure about something you wanted but you couldn't have because you insisted to be an Observer, and your response was to leave and insult it. You know what i said Rabarac? Thank god he left. In fact, we don't need you. I thought maybe you could change something in IPO, but no, you just want to argue about worthless stuff. If you thought you could do better, why didn't you applied for membership and to run as administrator? If you think you have a more effective way, you would probably win the bloody elections, or maybe not.
Don't try to fool kids in a kids' game, that's my advice.
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If he considers an organization like the IPO to be inherently misguided, why on Earth would he attempt to lead it?
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So if there's something inherently misguided we cannot change it? Oh well, maybe you're right, look at the mess in Iraq. :trout:
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But if the organization in and of itself is inherently misguided, the only way to change it would be to dismantle it.
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The problem with this organization is that we are not misguided, we are unguided.
we build this from the roof down, which any architect can tell you is not the best idea.
So I have asked Rabarac IP to come over and talk to his government about this incident, but so far I got no answer.
I must say that he gave me a good platform to start with this in his news thread. It seems his "observer" to IPO did not fully act in the knowledge of his superiors and with the will of his government.
So I will wait for an RP reaction and I am also working on a solution to our problems that I already have shown Delfos.
But please be patient.
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I never said I thought it was misguided. After all, I'm a part of it.
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I knew everything he said. No news.
Just clearing that, if i said this wasn't going through it was an OOC, or maybe not, but yet it was a comment to the lack of fine proposal i requested in my first post. And from the beginning you made comments that made me and others believe your were only here to destabilize, it was prooved with just a small pressure about something you wanted but you couldn't have because you insisted to be an Observer, and your response was to leave and insult it. You know what i said Rabarac? Thank god he left. In fact, we don't need you. I thought maybe you could change something in IPO, but no, you just want to argue about worthless stuff. If you thought you could do better, why didn't you applied for membership and to run as administrator? If you think you have a more effective way, you would probably win the bloody elections, or maybe not.
Don't try to fool kids in a kids' game, that's my advice.
OOC:
Delfos, I apologize, I didn't mean to get a vitriolic response out of you. I do apologize to everyone for writing my last response when I was rather stressed out about a number of things, and putting in a bunch of emotion that was inappropriate. But I must say, I never stooped to the level of insulting players personally. A kids' game, indeed.
IC:
To: International Peace Organization
From: Karina Dalma, Chief Executive Officer and Chairwoman of the Board of Directors of the Glorious Conglomerate of Kathria
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It has come to my attention that the acts of a rogue Rabaraci diplomat has created a considerable destabilization of relations between the noble IPO and the Colonial Division of the Glorious Conglomerate. The Board has unanimously decided to seize temporary control of the Foreign Advocate's Office of the Rabaraci Colony. I shall personally administer to the Foreign Affairs of Rabarac until this and any other detrimental acts have been rectified. We will happily receive the representative from Terrangar and hope to achieve peace and prosperity with the IPO in the future. I again apologize for the actions of Mr. Brahms, and assure you that he is currently being investigated for connections with a growing secret anarchist cabal that is threatening the security of the colony. The truth is, Rabarac needs the IPO, as these forces are daily plotting to revolt against the rightful Kathrian rule. We look forward to the continuing prosperity of the Organization and hope that we can benefit from this arrangement in the future.
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A kids' game, indeed.
I'm glad you agree.