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Author Topic: US 2008  (Read 10101 times)

Offline Delfos

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US 2008
« on: August 27, 2007, 12:26:57 AM »
Oh well, another topic about presidential elections. I don't know much about key points and all that, but have been listening to some of the debates, maybe the largest key points are Iraq and Iran. I would like Americans to give their view about any point for this presidential elections.

I started to say my support would go to Obama, but i don't know. Listened to Gravel's debate and i really liked to hear a non-arrogant senator speaking of USA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gMlHv2lDqA

What should US do with Iraq?
What should US do with Iran?
questions you might want to answer to form a debate.

Offline Myroria

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Re: US 2008
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2007, 12:41:58 AM »
All the canidates suck in my opinion. If Ron Paul runs, I'm rooting for him. I hate Hillary with a passion, Obama is against gun rights, Guliani only has 9/11 to run on and is against stem cell research, etc...

But about Iraq:

We never should have gone to Iraq. We should have focused our resources on catching Bin Laden, not some dictator who had nothing to do with 9/11. But, that being said, I don't think we can just pull out. Iraq would fall deeper into civil war, and we can't let civilians be killed needlessly.

About Iran:

Bush could never pull off an Iranian war. If he did and didn't cause enormous protests, I just might have to say he's actually intelligent (But that wouldn't mean he's good). What I'm saying is, I'm not worried about a war with Iran.
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Offline Osamafune

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Re: US 2008
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2007, 05:04:55 AM »
I guess right now my support would go to Obama, but only because I think Hillary would be a bad president from what I've seen in debates and the only other candidate I really know anything else about is Rudy. And all I know about him is that he was mayor of NYC on 9/11...

Obama does have good points though.

I'm for eliminating the embargo of Cuba. It just seems pointless now that the Cold War is over. Obama has already said he was for lessening some of the restrictions regarding Cuba.

Also I think we need to get off of our high horses and talk to people. We need to stop acting like snobs and bullies and actually talk with our enemies before demanding things out of them. Obama said he would hold talks with leaders of some of our enemies like the president of Iran.


Other things on my mind not involving Obama (well not entirely)...

Iraq. We shouldn't have invaded them. BUT now that we're there, I feel we have to ATLEAST take care of Al Qaeda in Iraq before withdrawing. The government is weak, our withdrawal would allow the real Al Qaeda to set up a bigger presence there (or to establish one if they aren't already there). Al Qaeda in Iraq is responsible for the majority of the suicide bombings. Eliminate them, you should eliminate a good portion of the sectarian violence plaging Iraq because there would be fewer revenge killings (but I'm no expert on the topic, this is just based on my observations from reading the news). Like Obama said, we shouldn't be fighting a war to prevent a genocide, or else we should invade Sudan. But when the genocide is inadvertedly caused by us, I think we have a moral justification to stay and sort things out.

Iran. Ahmedinejad or whatever the hell his name is just needs to die. He keeps focusing on his military and killing our soldiers in Iraq, and now his people are suffering from a piss poor economy. All that oil Iran has, and yet he has to enforce an oil ration? Geez... We should enforce a passive regime change. Public opinion is turning against him, so we leave him alone to dig his own grave. However, there's the nuclear problem. An anti-west, pro-Islamist, anti-Israel country in possession of nuclear technology is a bad thing. I think we have to keep monitoring that, and if it looks like they have the bomb, attack the nuclear facilities. But that still may not be a good idea since their nuclear facilities are located close to large population centers and the current ones have the ability to relocate to other places if needed.

Afghanistan. We really need to be focusing more soldiers and resources on this war. I believe this war may be more important than the Iraq war, and we need to start taking care of things before our so called "allies" withdraw. With more men on the ground in Afghanistan, hopefully we wouldn't have to rely on airstrikes as much which would lower civilian casualties and friendly fire instances like what happened just a couple days ago when an American jet dropped a bomb on and killing three British soldiers. Instances like that can't be tolerated or accepted, and we have to do something to fix the problem.

Other over seas bases. We need to get rid of many of our over seas bases. Bases in all of these countries is pointless. Create maybe one single base in Europe that is jointly ran by all Nato members. That one base would respond to anything in Europe. Use those soldiers to replace National Guardsmen in Iraq and Afghanistan, then use those Guardsmen to guard the Mexican border against illegals.

Other. Outlaw abortion except under certain circumstances, outlaw stem cell research completely, and by God, get that damn border fence built.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2007, 05:07:13 AM by Osafune »

Offline Solnath

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Re: US 2008
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2007, 06:13:06 AM »
I support anyone who advocates peace, equality and the ending of imperialism. Wait, those things are Unamerican.
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Offline Delfos

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Re: US 2008
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2007, 06:46:53 AM »
Osafume, if what you described is the concept of Obama's points, then he's quite a battle horse. Yes bases in other countries are waste of military and money...but US Gov. Seems to like to waste money on the military. Among the other things, what you defend seems fantastic.

Myro, i liked your comments but you focused on the past, i want to know what solutions you have, or what candidate has the best solutions. Staying in Iraq isn't a solution in my opinion, stay forever? is that what you mean?
Bush is history here i guess. So whatever he has done or will do with Iran will become an issue to whoever is elected.

Afghanistan wasn't that bad...they shouldn't have invaded Iraq and maybe the Afghanistan 'war' wouldn't last so long, like Myro said. Afghanistan should be already free from foreign military. Same goes to Iraq in my opinion, if you fail, you cannot continue staying/failing. Just pull out...

I agreed that Hillary wouldn't make a good president, i would be glad that USA would have it's 1st female president, but she doesn't fit there in my opinion. I would guess that even Bill is against some of the points, or is he not?

Offline Solnath

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Re: US 2008
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2007, 07:01:43 AM »
Now that I looked at the YouTube clip, Gravel actually seems fairly decent.
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Offline Eientei

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Re: US 2008
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2007, 07:15:44 AM »
Most people here see Mike Gravel as a joke.  He tends to come off as just angry in the debates so far, and he only has an outside chance as it is.  Too bad things like style and appearance seem to matter so much, but they do.

Offline Khem

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Re: US 2008
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2007, 07:32:08 AM »
meh election after this one my friend joker is running for office. he totally has my vote.

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Offline Gulliver

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Re: US 2008
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2007, 08:47:28 AM »
Well, there really is no purpose in me personally voting. As if Massachusetts would ever cast its Electoral College votes against the Democrat. Short of course of the National Popular Vote Bill miraculously coming into affect before the election.

Offline Delfos

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Re: US 2008
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2007, 10:01:21 AM »
that's surely a shit bucket!

About Mike Gravel, i heard about him in that video link of Myroria, Jib Jab? anyway, found out that You Tube video and i can see how Jib Jab and some Americans see Gravel as a joke. He stands for what he believes, not what everyone wants to believe.

Really, what are you afraid of?
Why haven't you disarmed those nuclear weapons yet?
What the hell are you still doing in Iraq?
Doesn't Gravel have some big points, and don't you believe he would change US prospective?

My guess is that people don't like the change, specially when he doesn't care how he looks on TV. We had a foreign minister like that, shame he had an health problem, that criticized the actions of USA in Iraq (at the beginning) while everyone was supporting them. In Europe there's quite a load of Gravels, and we're happy, jokers or not, they do their job well, they have balls!

Afraid of a political revolution?

Anyway...Obama still looks one of the best option after Gravel, but i don't see Gravel winning..poor guy. At least make him foreign minister! lol

And about getting angry on debates? i don't think so, you can see Gravel joking quite allot when he speaks, it's a kind of propaganda, i guess...the way of being seen a joker, and nothing for real is counter-part propaganda, look at the dumb face Hillary makes smiling at the public...every teeth she shows is a hundred more voters, why don't you vote by the teeth instead?

what's the most reasonable candidate for you? the one you would vote if there would be nothing better to vote for?

Offline Myroria

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Re: US 2008
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2007, 12:15:18 AM »
About stem-cell research: It should be illegal to find a cure for cancer because some book of stories says it's wrong? If life began at conception, we wouldn't celebrate birthdays as the day we came out of the womb.
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Offline Ryazania

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Re: US 2008
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2007, 12:45:59 AM »
Ron Paul, supporter of the Constitution! What a novel idea to do. Abolishment of wasteful government, lower taxes, more state's rights, foreign military withdrawal, etc.,

I especially like his support of states voting on issues rather than making federal law.
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Offline Myroria

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Re: US 2008
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2007, 12:52:06 AM »
So, is he running?
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Offline Ryazania

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Re: US 2008
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2007, 01:34:46 AM »
Economic Left/Right: 9.65
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.37

Proud Constitutionalist

When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.

Tyrants from Hitler to Mao to Stalin have sought to disarm their own citizens, for the simple reason that unarmed people are easier to control.


Offline Union

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Re: US 2008
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2007, 01:38:42 AM »
George W. Bush will win this year's elections.
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