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News: Be vigilant: Anticitoyens could be behind any corner.

Author Topic: The prophecy is complete.  (Read 2292 times)

Offline Gulliver

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Re: The prophecy is complete.
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2008, 09:48:19 AM »
Quote from: Delfos
What I said maintains, you're avoiding any discussion, and rather trying to make a fool of the subject, when it's quite complex and has allot of room for discussion.

I'm not avoiding discussion, and I'm certainly not trying to "make a fool of the subject". It is indeed a complex subject which could be discussed in depth intelligently. You however from the get go have pretty much given discussion of that nature the axe by immediately jumping to a number of ludicrous conclusions which are tenuously relevant.

If you want good debate and discussion then don't start by setting the bar for the quality of discourse so low.

Anyway, I don't predict that this will yield anything too exciting. People love to blow things out of proportion, but the world can all so often be surprisingly dull. As Annex says, it is but another issue that will be tossed around, dealt with, griped about et cetera.

Offline Delfos

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Re: The prophecy is complete.
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2008, 11:12:53 AM »
Mike Gravel is a footnote; Ron Paul's solution would involve the implicit assumption that the people will do something as the government steps away from regulating it. Neither are relevant much to the issue at hand here.

The budget system of the USA does not need a complete overhaul as you suggest (well, at least this certainly doesn't follow from high oil prices). The budget itself, perhaps, but the system, flawed as it is, works well enough in theory to accommodate changes. The next Democratic presidency will likely be under massive pressure from the people and interest groups to undo the damage of the Bush presidency (see Bush EPA). This at the very least would warrant greater research into alternative fuels, more environment spending, and whatnot.

None of this will help much. Developing viable alternatives will take longer time than we really have. Gas will become quite expensive in the twilight of America's energy crisis, such is life, we will complain and deal with it. My apologies for speaking in such ambivalent generality, but I simply don't see too much remarkable to say about the issue - it is an issue, it will be addressed as public pressure dictates, it will cause problems, it will be solved.... slowly, and in patchwork. I suppose that's the American way.

Very well, yes I was exaggerating, at least I got something out of you, not like the others. That's the point.

Not entirely, but it does need reform, USA will surely continue to base it's economy on oil, and it will make the rest of the world follow into a bottomless pit, there can't be so much wastes, and Mike Gravel, far from all, is the one that has cut more wastes and actually allot of useless stuff. Of course he doesn't have a chance, hence why I mentioned his name, a lost cause. But it's good that people like him exist and fight for presidency, maybe it was because of that there's allot of *strong* candidates. I think Obama is leading expectations and popularity, from what I've heard and see, which is probably outdated. Although Hilary is there...their proposals don't seem to fix any of this economic or budget issues, or at least not as quick and efficient as everyone wants.

The oil won't stop now, unless something drastic happens. If you see how far it's been climbing since Hugo Chavez said this prophecy, and without any resolution or proposal to fix it, it's either going up, or economic power going down, and people won't take it going up forever. I'm glad EU saw this problem way earlier, I don't know if USA has will or time to make as much patches as EU, even then, we're all screwed.
It's not a crisis, it's happening, and it will lead allot of the current and future problems. Will they start wars for energy, and will it lead to a war for resources, or will we be all very compassionate human beings and share doing sacrifices? It's being predicted for long time, but will it start so soon?

Offline Delfos

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Re: The prophecy is complete.
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2008, 12:10:54 PM »
How's the US energy companies going with renewable energy sources? Seems one of those fell 100% to the hands of the 4th largest producer of renewable energies, putting Portugal on top of the list. Are they betting as hard as they can on it or will they let us make the renewable energy from them? After all it's one of the most solid resolutions for oil.

But that's what all the fuss about wars was about, and you were the only one to answer, although not very satisfying perspective. Do you think US energy will be able to change so drastically?

Offline B9 perspective

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Re: The prophecy is complete.
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2008, 01:07:55 PM »
I live in Italy and I'm a dual USA/Italian citizen. I don't hate America, whether I trust it's ways is quite another subject. That I don't necessarily trust some of America's strategies doesn't mean I hate America. The premise that folks have to support or agree with policies or else are blatantly and hopelessly against them is not an optimal problem confronting approach, IMHO.
Recently an American asked me if Italians believed the war in Iraq was about the price of oil...the Italians answered, of course, what else is it about? (italians pay btw 5x what Americans pay for gas at the station).
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Offline Delfos

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Re: The prophecy is complete.
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2008, 02:15:10 PM »
lol, I hope they understand what you said, because they never did when I explained my standings, or never wanted to.

Offline j delight

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Re: The prophecy is complete.
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2008, 12:36:34 AM »
I live in Italy and I'm a dual USA/Italian citizen. I don't hate America, whether I trust it's ways is quite another subject. That I don't necessarily trust some of America's strategies doesn't mean I hate America. The premise that folks have to support or agree with policies or else are blatantly and hopelessly against them is not an optimal problem confronting approach, IMHO.
Recently an American asked me if Italians believed the war in Iraq was about the price of oil...the Italians answered, of course, what else is it about? (italians pay btw 5x what Americans pay for gas at the station).

As long as the U.S. and Canada are huge land masses with highly evoled communication technologies, we will remain oil dependent if only for our enormous vehicles. 
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Offline Myroria

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Re: The prophecy is complete.
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2008, 12:54:12 AM »
What is it with you and Portugal? You are the only Portuguese person I've ever heard of who constantly says that your country is the greatest country on Earth. That - huhuhuhuh - is a little fucking obnoxious.
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Offline Aquatoria

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Re: The prophecy is complete.
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2008, 12:55:25 AM »
Lol  :D Lewis Black is the man
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Offline Delfos

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Re: The prophecy is complete.
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2008, 11:56:19 AM »
That's the problem, large vehicles, over consumption.

Offline Myroria

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Re: The prophecy is complete.
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2008, 04:56:36 PM »
Then stop driving, Delfos. And don't give me the "I drive a hybrid" crap.
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Offline Bara

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Re: The prophecy is complete.
« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2008, 08:38:09 PM »
i dont even drive.
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Offline Delfos

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Re: The prophecy is complete.
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2008, 02:06:24 AM »
huh, driving has nothing to do with it.

Offline Myroria

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Re: The prophecy is complete.
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2008, 02:08:00 AM »
You just said large vehicles are the problem. Unless most people in the Largest Province of Spain just leave their cars idling in the driveway, they're driving, and I'm fairly sure you do too.
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Offline Peter Darkness

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Re: The prophecy is complete.
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2008, 02:17:21 AM »
You just said large vehicles are the problem. Unless most people in the Largest Province of Spain just leave their cars idling in the driveway, they're driving, and I'm fairly sure you do too.

Doesn't everyone do that?  ;D
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Offline Delfos

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Re: The prophecy is complete.
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2008, 02:21:13 AM »
no, I said over consumption is the problem, large vehicles do that, small vehicles not so much, and eco vehicles not at all