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Forum Meta => Archive => General Discussion Archive => Topic started by: Eientei on January 02, 2008, 09:42:48 PM

Title: The 2008 US Presidential Race Thread - let's not screw it up this time
Post by: Eientei on January 02, 2008, 09:42:48 PM
Every four years, US presidential candidates from one or both parties go to Iowa to try to win over constituents for the all-important first official vote of the election season.  Yes, a largely rural state with a population of just about three million (with less than ten percent of the population actually turning out to vote) gets to have a huge say in the next president of the nation.  That makes sense, right?

So if you have any opinions about the candidates or predictions for the outcome of tomorrow's votes, feel free to post them here.  I'm hoping Obama makes a strong showing on the Democratic side, and that Romney doesn't on the Republican side (not because he's Mormon, I just disagree with pretty much everything he says and almost every vote he's made.)
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: Allama on January 03, 2008, 08:09:23 PM
Clinton - For the love of all that is just and holy, she should drop out of the race immediately and give a decent candidate a better chance.  We need no war-hawks-in-disguise in the White House to kowtow to corporate interests even more than the others are likely to do.  I won't even get into her other dubious qualities, as I'll probably get too upset to continue to function.

Dodd - Marry me!  :wb:  Not likely to get many votes in the primaries, but certainly the best choice as far as competency, reliability, and morals are concerned.  If he gets any degree of support in Iowa I will be as pleasantly surprised as humanly possible.

Edwards - I'm more-or-less ambivalent towards Edwards.  He'd be fine, I suppose, but not thrilling in any degree.

Kucinich - The most likely "second-tier" candidate to garner sufficient support and one I would be happy to endorse personally.  Kucinich is a man of principle and one who would not bow down to the Republicans in any way I can forsee.

Obama - At this point, probably the Dems' best hope.  I'm not 100% behind him on everything and he's not as progressive as I would like, but he has a fresh vision of optimism and a desire for positive change, not to mention the public support that would be necessary to win the election (albeit much more would have to be thrown in between now and November).
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: Zimmerwald on January 03, 2008, 10:06:13 PM
I've come to the conclusion that whoever the Democrats' nominate, that person will win unless he or she hires Bob Shrum.  That man is a fungus to any campaign.
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: Meridianland on January 03, 2008, 10:34:31 PM
I'm voting for Annex.
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: Allama on January 04, 2008, 11:44:49 AM
Bwahahaha!  Last night's Iowa caucus results are in!

Barack Obama - 37.6%
John Edwards - 29.7%
Hillary Clinton - 29.5%
Bill Richardson - 2.1%

In the immortal words of that random flight attendant in Snakes On A Plane, "Who's your daddy now, bitch?"  Oh, and here's a couple graphs so you can the breakdown of both primary parties' primaries (say that ten times fast):

(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44334000/gif/_44334514_iowa_result203x416.gif)
(Giuliani = SERVED)

Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: Delfos on January 04, 2008, 12:04:55 PM
wow, I wouldn't expect Hilary being so matched or even down from the 2nd.
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: Allama on January 04, 2008, 01:24:47 PM
I'm not quite sure how much I "expected" it, but I sure did hope.  ;D  This much of a lead by Obama is even more than I had hoped for, though, so I'm extraordinarily pleased!
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: Delfos on January 04, 2008, 05:23:36 PM
hm, interesting...
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: Anniane on January 04, 2008, 11:14:22 PM
I'm waiting for the rest of the primaries. I don't like to believe the Iowa caucus as much of a predictor. Still, it's pleasantly surprising to see Clinton get so little support in Iowa, and even more wonderful to have Giuliani get so little support.

Huckabee's success is clearly due to the endorsement of Chuck Norris. Hopefully Norris will be Huckabee's running mate if he wins.
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: Myroria on January 05, 2008, 12:16:08 AM
Hahhaha, even Ron Paul beat Guiliani. I'd expect he'd get last because he doesn't live, breathe, and eat the Bible.

And I thought that was Chuck Norris on the BBC today. Though even the nomination of Chuck wouldn't distract me that I'd probably have my citizenship revoked for being atheist.

Oh, and I don't know if anyone else saw this on Youtube, but here's the Political Video Title of the Century:

"Time to Ask that Question: Will Bush Cancel the 2008 Election?"

Because, you know, he can just cancel it.

If it's Obama vs. Huckabee in the election - which I hope it's not - I'm actually rooting Democrat.
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: Eientei on January 05, 2008, 01:49:03 AM
I'm happy about the results, but it should be interesting to see whether they carry over to New Hampshire on Tuesday.  Obama is in a strong position, which I'm happy about.  Let's hope he keeps that position!

As for Huckabee, he's going to have a much harder time in New Hampshire, as everyone's said - there aren't too many evangelical Christians up there to boost his numbers.
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: Gulliver on January 05, 2008, 09:37:18 AM
From what I've seen of polls, Clinton and McCain are presently ahead in NH.
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: The Empire on January 05, 2008, 10:46:39 AM
If Huckabee wins, I belive the world is screwed big time... It's too much as it is with the heretic jihadists (heretic to their own religion) And then a 'christian' heretic gaining access to enough nukes to incinerate us all is just too scary to imagine. I wouldn't put it beyond him to start WW3 with a 'crusade' against Iran.
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: Delfos on January 05, 2008, 11:40:05 AM
Norris standing there was disgusting, why don't Republicans pay Raul Castro to come in the back too?
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: Gulliver on January 05, 2008, 12:16:03 PM
I'm not so sure Huckabee would start a global thermonuclear war. Rather, I'm concerned about his social conservatism and his wacky fiscal policy. A 23% federal sales tax in place of income tax would be horrifically regressive, and the tax refunds to poor families he proposes to remedy this problem would require a monstrous bureaucracy.
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: Of Crazed on January 05, 2008, 02:39:13 PM
(http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/images/regressive1.gif)
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: Peter Darkness on January 05, 2008, 03:47:24 PM
Bwahahaha!  Last night's Iowa caucus results are in!

Barack Obama - 37.6%
John Edwards - 29.7%
Hillary Clinton - 29.5%
Bill Richardson - 2.1%

In the immortal words of that random flight attendant in Snakes On A Plane, "Who's your daddy now, bitch?"  Oh, and here's a couple graphs so you can the breakdown of both primary parties' primaries (say that ten times fast):

(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44334000/gif/_44334514_iowa_result203x416.gif)
(Giuliani = SERVED)

Giuliani only did poorly in Iowa because he didn't put much effort in.

"We did not put a lot of effort in Iowa," Giuliani said, as he offered congratulations to Huckabee from Hialeah, Fla., where he flew yesterday to emphasize the importance of Florida's Jan. 29 primary for his chances in the race."

News Day (http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-usgop045524840jan04,0,933709.story)

I could deal with Obama if he wins. I'm for Ron Paul, but he's not going to win. With the media excluding him from everything, and bashing him all the time, it would be a miracle if he won.

Huckabee would be a curse, he thinks church and state should be one and the same. A big NO NO!

Did any of you see his cell phone call with god? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yj_okz7ZwI     :o
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: Gulliver on January 05, 2008, 04:09:50 PM
Quote from: Peter Dark
"We did not put a lot of effort in Iowa," Giuliani said, as he offered congratulations to Huckabee from Hialeah, Fla., where he flew yesterday to emphasize the importance of Florida's Jan. 29 primary for his chances in the race."

Canvasing the Church of Lukumi Babalu Aye for votes perchance?

And as to Ron Paul, I'll say this. As I understand it, among his proposals are such things as abolishing the Federal Reserve Bank. The Free Banking Era was not a particularly pleasant time.
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: Myroria on January 05, 2008, 04:51:06 PM
(http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/images/regressive1.gif)

Against abortion, but for killing babies.

And yes, economic libertarianism generally sucks when there's a recession because stopping one isn't free capitalism's strong point. I'm for Ron Paul on the basis that the rest are socially neo-liberal or neo-con.
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: The Empire on January 05, 2008, 06:51:20 PM

Against abortion, but for killing babies.

Please explain statement? And who's position is it?
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: Myroria on January 05, 2008, 07:30:21 PM
It's a quote from Maddox, in the same article as the picture OC posted.

Quote
I have a different stance on abortion: I'm against abortion, but for killing babies. That way everyone loses, and I win. I'm neither pro choice, nor pro life; I'm pro you-shutting-the-hell-up. The only way I'd be "pro choice" is if it meant I could choose which babies I could abort, and only then if I could lift the age restriction to 80. I was at this mall the other day watching some shitty documentary when I came out of the theater and saw old people dancing to country music in the courtyard. I couldn't remember the last time I saw a group of people begging this hard to be aborted.

If you must know, I'm pro-choice, in all seriousness.
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: The Empire on January 05, 2008, 09:33:16 PM
I was just curious, and that's another thing we share a common ground on.


You are getting scary Myro...
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: Solnath on January 05, 2008, 09:39:24 PM
You do realise there won't actually be an election in 2008 and that Cheney will become President and declare a state of emergency?
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: The Empire on January 05, 2008, 09:46:31 PM
Somehow.. that option wouldn't surprise me much... but it would scare me shitless... Two big-ass dictatorships on somewhat friendly terms with eachother... only positive is that one is far away and the other has to pass through a land full of crazy people to get here... (crazy as in homicidal drunkards, aka. Finns... )
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: Peter Darkness on January 06, 2008, 02:04:46 AM
You do realise there won't actually be an election in 2008 and that Cheney will become President and declare a state of emergency?

Who knows what will happen. Something like that happening is a possibility though.
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: Bara on January 06, 2008, 02:44:43 AM
Somehow.. that option wouldn't surprise me much... but it would scare me shitless... Two big-ass dictatorships on somewhat friendly terms with eachother... only positive is that one is far away and the other has to pass through a land full of crazy people to get here... (crazy as in homicidal drunkards, aka. Finns... )

im  right here, you know.
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: The Empire on January 06, 2008, 12:07:33 PM
Yeah, Barak, you know you and I aren't on the same continent and has a time difference of at least 8 hours right?
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: kor on January 06, 2008, 01:46:30 PM
You do realise there won't actually be an election in 2008 and that Cheney will become President and declare a state of emergency?

All it would take is for Bush to enact Executive Order 12919. Which would begin martial law in the event of a national emergency. This would suspend Congress, the Supreme Court, election, and pretty much everything else. He would be the supreme leader with nobody to answer to.  :-\

Edit: Did I mention that there doesn't have to be an actual emergency, only what Bush deems to to an emergency.
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: Bara on January 06, 2008, 02:22:18 PM
...
Emp, if that happens, can i come to your conetint?
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: The Empire on January 06, 2008, 02:33:08 PM
Barak, when ww3 is here there will be nowhere to hide or run... just dig... deep, and hope to survive.
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: Bara on January 06, 2008, 02:44:12 PM
thanks. i already statred.

GET OFF MY BUNKER!
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: kor on January 06, 2008, 02:54:38 PM
If you think that's scary, Google American Union.  :-\
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: Bara on January 06, 2008, 02:57:52 PM
*shudders*
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: kor on January 06, 2008, 03:02:37 PM
Don't forget to look up the Amero. The proposed currency to replace the dollar when it collapses. It'll be the official currency of this American Union.

Edit: Now everyone here's gonna think I'm crazy.  :-\
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: Delfos on January 06, 2008, 03:07:58 PM
 :whip:
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: Bara on January 06, 2008, 03:19:13 PM
Don't forget to look up the Amero. The proposed currency to replace the dollar when it collapses. It'll be the official currency of this American Union.

Edit: Now everyone here's gonna think I'm crazy.  :-\

i did. i wikied it.

and we already do kor.
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: The Empire on January 06, 2008, 05:35:16 PM
Umm... the anti-NAU conspiracy theorists would seem a lot more serious if they weren't so self-contradicting... One world order, sure, totalitarian tendencies in the current admin, sure but Bush & CO beliving in the communist manifesto by marx? I mean come on...  ROTFLMFAO!

To me they seem like complete nutcases...
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: Delfos on January 06, 2008, 06:05:53 PM
well, there's so many, the majority are just as bad as you see, but there's some good theories. I guess 80% of the fault is the lack of information CIA, FBI or US Government in public.
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: Eientei on January 07, 2008, 06:57:58 PM
http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN0433304720080107 (http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN0433304720080107)

Update!  Obama gained ten points on Clinton, according to a poll conducted by C-SPAN, Reuters and John Zogby (about as reliable a pollster as there is in Washington.)  John McCain is currently leading Mitt Romney by five points.  Things are certainly looking up for Barack.
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: The Empire on January 07, 2008, 08:04:13 PM
Ok, here's some speculations with very little substance and a lot of 'what if'

If Bush decided to decleare martial law and suspend elections indefinitely, how large is the chance that it sparks an armed uprising that fairly soon end in Bush beeing killed or imprisoned along with most of his administration?
And if that happens, how big is the chance that the US can return to buisness as usual or will it collapse into respective component states?
If it does collapse, what will happen with the federal WMD stockpiles domestic and abroad? What will happen to the US bases on foreign soil?
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: Of Crazed on January 07, 2008, 08:05:40 PM
Can we make this the 2008 US prez thread?

Also

Quote
If Bush decided to decleare martial law and suspend elections indefinitely, how large is the chance that it sparks an armed uprising that fairly soon end in Bush beeing killed or imprisoned along with most of his administration?

 :idk:
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: Peter Darkness on January 07, 2008, 08:07:12 PM
Don't forget to look up the Amero. The proposed currency to replace the dollar when it collapses. It'll be the official currency of this American Union.

Edit: Now everyone here's gonna think I'm crazy.  :-\

You aren't as crazy as I am.

Here is what I believe
The New World Order is a threat.
Something is really fishy about 9/11
All of the major corporations are connected.
Bilderberg group is very real.


Quote
Ok, here's some speculations with very little substance and a lot of 'what if'

If Bush decided to decleare martial law and suspend elections indefinitely, how large is the chance that it sparks an armed uprising that fairly soon end in Bush beeing killed or imprisoned along with most of his administration?
And if that happens, how big is the chance that the US can return to buisness as usual or will it collapse into respective component states?
If it does collapse, what will happen with the federal WMD stockpiles domestic and abroad? What will happen to the US bases on foreign soil?

People who cause dissent would be arrested and locked up. Plus, I can't see too many Americans getting up and fighting.

Google "FEMA Camp"

In case anyone is wondering, I do not worry 24/7, I have a life.  ;D

P.S Why is the forum so damn laggy?
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: The Empire on January 07, 2008, 08:19:42 PM
Well, the Euro is already far on the way to replace both the USD and the GBP as the main secure currency of the globe.
Neither the dollar nor the pound has been this cheap as far as I can remember (though I'm only 23)
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: Bara on January 07, 2008, 08:31:17 PM
im still wondering why we dont take the euro. The Dollar is losing vaule.
Title: Re: The 2008 Iowa Caucus Thread - all bets are off!
Post by: Delfos on January 07, 2008, 08:48:02 PM
well, works both ways, anything we import from US is cheaper, anything we expert is more expensive, but that can be a problem for exporters, EU doesn't exactly have much of what US consumes, unless tech and coms...and bio-diesel now.
Title: Re: The 2008 US Presidential Race Thread - let's not screw it up this time
Post by: Of Crazed on January 07, 2008, 08:49:23 PM
I dont know who, but I thanks someone for the edit.  :wb: :wb: :wb:
Title: Re: The 2008 US Presidential Race Thread - let's not screw it up this time
Post by: Bara on January 07, 2008, 08:54:07 PM
well, works both ways, anything we import from US is cheaper, anything we expert is more expensive, but that can be a problem for exporters, EU doesn't exactly have much of what US consumes, unless tech and coms...and bio-diesel now.

ah,ok.
Title: Re: The 2008 US Presidential Race Thread - let's not screw it up this time
Post by: Eientei on January 07, 2008, 09:05:56 PM
No problem.  I can also edit the first post from time to time with updates on the progress of the race.  Fair and balanced coverage!
Title: Re: The 2008 US Presidential Race Thread - let's not screw it up this time
Post by: Myroria on January 17, 2008, 01:54:43 AM
You do realise there won't actually be an election in 2008 and that Cheney will become President and declare a state of emergency?

All it would take is for Bush to enact Executive Order 12919. Which would begin martial law in the event of a national emergency. This would suspend Congress, the Supreme Court, election, and pretty much everything else. He would be the supreme leader with nobody to answer to.  :-\

Edit: Did I mention that there doesn't have to be an actual emergency, only what Bush deems to to an emergency.

There's no way that's possible. That doesn't legally suspend Congress; if he does something that violates the constitution - which becoming supreme leader would   ("Every state shall be promised a republican [That means a republic, not the Republican Party] form of government"), he can still be impeached, and most people don't need any extra incentive to impeach Bush.

Regardless, I think Bush does indeed have the best interest of the United States at heart. He's not evil, he's just stupid.
Title: Re: The 2008 US Presidential Race Thread - let's not screw it up this time
Post by: kor on January 17, 2008, 02:07:58 AM
You do realise there won't actually be an election in 2008 and that Cheney will become President and declare a state of emergency?

All it would take is for Bush to enact Executive Order 12919. Which would begin martial law in the event of a national emergency. This would suspend Congress, the Supreme Court, election, and pretty much everything else. He would be the supreme leader with nobody to answer to.  :-\

Edit: Did I mention that there doesn't have to be an actual emergency, only what Bush deems to to an emergency.

There's no way that's possible. That doesn't legally suspend Congress; if he does something that violates the constitution - which becoming supreme leader would   ("Every state shall be promised a republican [That means a republic, not the Republican Party] form of government"), he can still be impeached, and most people don't need any extra incentive to impeach Bush.

Regardless, I think Bush does indeed have the best interest of the United States at heart. He's not evil, he's just stupid.

Oh you mean impeach him like the Democrats promised to do? >_>
Title: Re: The 2008 US Presidential Race Thread - let's not screw it up this time
Post by: Eientei on January 18, 2008, 11:23:48 PM
Ah, impeachment.  He'd need to have done something outright illegal to make a case for impeachment and removal from office stick.  While I think we can agree he's been an absolute disaster and has supported policies that really should be illegal (a subject for another thread(s)), unless he's actually broken the law or done something unconstitutional as above ("Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors" as written in Article 2 Section 4 of the Constitution) there's really no case to be made.  Man, that was a long sentence.