Religious Debates - come on in y'all!

[Ryazania]

No, not really. I forgot to mention I frequent Episcopalian churches because I also feel that at least the true teachings and values of Jesus Christ are ones that we could all use. In fact, most of Christ's teachings reflect Buddhism or Jainism (sp?), so I am willing to bet his teenage and tweens were spent in India.

[Myroria]

Science is not a religion, because with science you need proof for it to be accepted. With religion, you just need to spout out some crap and people believe it because some spirit supposedly said it.

[Ryazania]

Myroria, I'm afraid you know too little of religion. You generalize anyone who has any sort of faith in any sort of metaphysical activity. Blatantly denying such things without proof of nonexistance is as bad as blind faith in a book. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

[Eientei]

Science is not a religion, because with science you need proof for it to be accepted. With religion, you just need to spout out some crap and people believe it because some spirit supposedly said it.

I'd like to note that I'm not calling science "a religion" (maybe someone is, but I wouldn't agree with that.)  In that sense, you're right.  Scientific thought and religious thought face different standards, but that's because they address different aspects of life.  You can't require a religious believer to verify his beliefs the way you'd ask a scientist to provide proof for his arguments, precisely because the former isn't based on evidence but on an impression, a sense of the way things are or should be.  It can't possibly be based on evidence as science is; that's the point of faith.

Naturally, if you don't accept the bases of any kind of religious or spiritual faith, you're free to call it a load of crap.  You're hardly hurting anyone's feelings.

[Zimmerwald]

Well, the way I see it, theistic religion assigns God(s) powers that people don't believe they possess.  As people gain less and less control over what they produce, they assign God(s) that control.  People have the capacity to remake the world.  Everyone knows that by now.  And yet the still continue to assign that power to God(s).  Why?  Because though we can remake the world, most people don't decide how it is to be remade, nor do they reap the fruits of that remodeling.

God(s) become unnecessary when people realize their full productive capacity, and are able to take full advantage of it.  Till then...

?

[Eientei]

Well, the way I see it, theistic religion assigns God(s) powers that people don't believe they possess.  As people gain less and less control over what they produce, they assign God(s) that control.  People have the capacity to remake the world.  Everyone knows that by now.  And yet the still continue to assign that power to God(s).  Why?  Because though we can remake the world, most people don't decide how it is to be remade, nor do they reap the fruits of that remodeling.

God(s) become unnecessary when people realize their full productive capacity, and are able to take full advantage of it.  Till then...

?

I'd rather say that over history, we've assigned God less willful control over the world, if not less power.  Take the trials of ordeal practiced in Europe back in the Dark Ages - people actually expected God to intervene for the accused if he or she was innocent, by preventing their hand from being burned by boiling water, or keeping the accused's feet from being burned by hot coals, etc.  We also used to attribute natural phenomena we just couldn't explain to God expressing his pleasure or displeasure over something or other.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by humanity's power to "remake the world" either, unless you mean we basically give up trying to improve our lives when we start to put our trust in some deity instead.

[Delfos]

nice, ryaz, I've read somewhere that the Muslims (i think it's the Muslims) believe that Jesus was some dark magician that learned his magics in India. So yes, as i said in a past post in this topic, allot of religions have the same basis. They normally adopt certain values of existent ones (being Catholicism one of the youngest (of the strongest in history i mean), it's the most altered one, but not Christianity.). Buddhism has stuff from Hinduism, but pointing for the enlightenment, always a smart explanation for something exterior. Even Shiva's dance is represented in Buddhism as harmony. Then came the Tao using Buddhism basis, but with Lao(or Mao? I get confused) he is certainly a philosopher. Some say that most of this 'sciences' are all the same, even science itself.

About science, the demon of La Place was confirmed by Einstein, so science it's pretty much like science, you believe because scientists say it's true, it's the truth. It's after all a form of faith. An example is when science failed, science got it wrong more than once, but the people had faith on science to tell the truth. Now let's add Shiva into this, atomic physics are very similar with Shiva's rhythm.

Now a thing that generally all this religions have, a 'creation of the universe' theory...

Oh and it doesn't matter if someone's calling science a religion, everyone has their opinion and what i state in this post is exactly that. Maybe you are stereotyping religion with guys sitting in churches and praying allot? Well the scientists have seminars.... lol

God(s) become unnecessary when people realize their full productive capacity, and are able to take full advantage of it.  Till then...

heh That's why i like Buddhism, being a god or not it's up to you.

[Solnath]

Ryaz, maybe God is Chance? We can't really experience how things might have gone, so we take the way they did for granted.

Religion has proof of itself as well. Faith.

[Khem]

Myroria, I'm afraid you know too little of religion. You generalize anyone who has any sort of faith in any sort of metaphysical activity. Blatantly denying such things without proof of nonexistance is as bad as blind faith in a book. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

hmm well i suppose i do have faith in certain metaphysical activites but i just see them as an inate part of life the universe and everything. the one thing i have trouble with is the higher power bit. i just don't agree with the idea that anything can be greater than what man can become ( theres my transhuman beliefs kicking in). i suppose if i have faith in anything its humanity, which is why my faith is disappointed so often. the current state of humanity is very depressing while our future is just full of possibilities.

[Solnath]

And the last man said, "Let there be light."

[Tatar]

I've read somewhere that the Muslims (i think it's the Muslims) believe that Jesus was some dark magician that learned his magics in India.
I never heard that.We(Muslims) are believe Jesus was prophet but his teachings were changed by Catholics.

[Solnath]

I've read somewhere that the Muslims (i think it's the Muslims) believe that Jesus was some dark magician that learned his magics in India.
I never heard that.We(Muslims) are believe Jesus was prophet but his teachings were changed by Catholics.

Kind of arrogant to speak for all Muslims, don't you think.

[Nightloser]

OK, i'm not a religious fanatic or stuff. I've been baptised as an Christian Orthodox. i, for one believe in an  supreme power who orders things around, may it be called God, Allah, Mother Nature or whatever. I have quite a number of issues with the Christian religion of any sort, because there are many things in The Holy Bible which simply cannot be available today. Also, i found a couple of absurdities. I mean, let's be serious, who the hell can put 2 of each living being on Earth on a stupid boat? Plus, what was Noah feeding them? Anyway...that book was written by people , and the things that we "should" believe were put in a the Niceea Council in 300 smth if i'm not mistaking. So, i just cannot believe what a bunch of not-so-saint people tell me, but i have a spirituality of my own based on the Christian religion.

[Delfos]

lol yes it's always arrogant, but don't you all? Maybe it wasn't the muslims...anyway, someone believes in what i said.

[Solnath]

I can speak for my faith 'cause it's my faith. Personal religions ftw!