That's a lot of jabber so I'm just going to pick out a few points..
At least with our current system everyone is covered. The only realistic alternative is privatization, which I admit wouldn't be that bad if done right.
Actually no, it's not the only alternative. Properly fund the system and remove/reduce the high cost of training to become a doctor so we have more doctors and nurses coming into the system. Pay those employees well and work with them to make a happy well rested staff who's needs/concerns are addressed in a mature and timely matter. Add dental and optical to be covered under the health care system and promote more programs to increase physical and mental activity both of which have been shown to promote independent health in the elderly reducing strain on the system. Invest more resources in home care as well. For why private system = bad; see America.
Also the current system does not cover everyone, the homeless for example have a hard time getting all but emergency treatment and certainly can't afford prescriptions let alone a place to sleep.
That's all it is, a dream. What you're describing is Communism, as described by Karl Marx. Well that idea has been tried.
Don't kid yourself, Lenin tried to make that society work as best as he could during the Soviet Union's early days. In fact he came pretty close, during the mid 1920's. What happened though? The system devolved into a totalitarian regime. The same process occurred in China, Yugoslavia, Cuba, and anywhere else a revolutionary socialist regime attempted to implement Communism.
You know, when Edison invented the light bulb he tried hundreds of time to make a working light bulb. He said he simple found a thousand ways not to make a light bulb.
So a few tries a couple decades ago and suddenly a capitalist oligarchy is the only way to go? Think of how much has changed in the areas of automation and manufacture. Technology may hold the key yet.
You also seem to assume that people would just descend into absolute madness if they weren't collared by the system. Right now maybe they would, but no one is calling for an overnight change. I believe a group of well educated people in comfortable circumstances where the individual takes responsibility for their role in the system could sustain itself. I can understand why you think everyone will always remain in a mature state of mind, one does tend to argue from their own perspective.
Wooo. That was close. This almost evolved into an intelligent discussion.
Well I wouldn't want to strain you too much
No, that describes the flow of a free-market economy. Free-market economies always experience upturns and downturns, and in rare cases surges and depressions. It's a fact of the system. We experienced an upturn in the mid and late 90's, and now we're coming down from that high. I agree it's not perfect, but to barrow a phrase from Winston Churchill, "it's the worst system we have except all the others that have been tried."
Are there room for improvements? Yes. Governments could exercise more control in the economy to make the downturns and (G-d forbid) depressions less severe. In the end though the economy will always follow this pattern, as it has since at least the 1800's.
If you have a perfect, guaranteed never to dip economic plan, please tell. I promise you, I won't be the only one interested.
Yes their are up and down turns, but the overall trend has been up. Sort of like CO
2 emissions, which brings us to...
If we were both working on inventing the car, I would be the one arguing for a fossil-fuel based system because I understand that's the best way to get the car to work. You would be busy hopelessly pursuing a pipe-dream about an engine that runs on water.
So you honestly believe a system which is causing global warming and massive environmental destruction is "the best way". Best economically and best globally seldom if ever agree. Oil is the cheapest way to go because the existing infrastructure is there and producing a lot of money for a select few people, so it's best for those people.
However I'd like to be able to survive on the planet, and I'd kind of like my grand kids to have the same privilege. So how exactly are you defining best here? Clearly you're not paying attention if you want to call hydrogen power a pipe-dream... the technology is improve and shrinking all the time.
I find it interesting though how you constantly defend your point of view by labeling them in derogatory terms. It's a field of research, not a pipe-dream. The inability to prove a thing in insufficient proof of it's none existence, I'm sure that a lot of people would have called the airplane a pipe-dream... until it worked. There is no reason why hydrogen power can not work and only economic incentives keep the fossil fuel based system going.
Oil is black magic, think about it.
It's a vile black goo pumped up from the depths of hell and made of the bones of dead monsters.
Its use is causing wars, disease, the destruction of the planet and all around despair.
If that's not black magic then what it?No, Russian society was founded on slavery, American society was founded on the principals of freedom, it's founders were just hypocrites who happened to own slaves (except for Benjamin Franklin). There's a huge difference.
Yeah, the difference is that the Russians were at least honest. Although technically Russia was founded on paying off the tartars, but what's historical accuracy anyways. They both relied on forced labour so how many times do I need to connect the obvious dots: "All men created equal" + Slaves and dead natives on newly stolen land = bullshit statement.
Unless you want to find some way to contradict the entire history of the US in both foreign and domestic policy, hell even all those freedoms they supposedly "gave" had to be clawed from the government bit by bit. Yes those people eventually got their freedoms in the system, but only by fighting against that system.
So not only have you compared yourself to Jesus and Buddha, told me to "suck it", but you've also compared Bush to Hitler. Bravo.
Yes, because I'm the only one. So how do these two events not line up? You neglected to actually refute the argument.
As I see it a government caused a disaster to happen to whip the people into a rage to allow the advancement of an agenda
Reichstag Fire > Blame Commies > Reichstag Fire Decree > Seize of Power
9/11 > Blame "Terrorists" > Patriot Act > Seize of Oil and Revenue
Point being, if your cause is just, the ends justify the means. If you forget this fact you'll never be able to wage a successful war, and you will fall to those who can.
That's a major assumption that the War on Terror is just, and a false one at that I'd venture. How would you define a successful war? This war introduces no stability, no democracy or freedom, is based on purposeful lies and can never defeat the concept against which it wars. In warring terrorism it requires the use of terrorism which give only another "right of retaliation" and causes more and more terrorism... so where's the nobility, the justice or the success?
No, I don't believe it's about bringing democracy to the Middle East. In principal at least, the war is simply about bringing those who perpetrated 9/11.
If this were true the whole thing would have ended at the trials against those who planned and carried out 9/11. It wouldn't involve securing oil fields or attacking, detaining or killing civilian populations in their homes.
Likewise that guy with a gun in the middle east, rather then shooting at infidels in the name of Allah, should work to make his country a better place for his people. Instead of planning attacks on the US Osama bin Ladin should maybe work to use his family's vast fortune to help the Arab world revitalize itself.
You talked about responsibility. Well it's not my responsibility to fix the middle east. It's the people in the middle east's responsibility. They're the ones who have to put the guns down and work to improve their countries.
Yay more racism! Shooting infidels in the name of Allah? Try defending their home from foreign invaders. I'm sure they'd have a better time making their country a better place if planes weren't flying around dropping bombs on them all the time.
I can walk outside, get on a soapbox, and preach about the evils of the government and I won't be arrested for that.
Disturbing the Peace = jailed
I can worship the religion I was brought up in.
Polygamists
I can read whatever I want, and newspapers and magazines are free to print what they want.
Please read the anarchist's cookbook.
Newpapers are free to print what they want, but most media (both print and broadcast) are owned by a select few who censor their message. The Media is still extensively censored and exclusively owned and this trend only continues to get worse. Read some Chomsky.
If the Globe and Mail (Canada) or the New York Times (USA) want to run articles criticizing their respective government's policies, they're free to do so without reprisal.
Tell that to the journalist jailed for refusing to reveal the identity of their source to the RCMP. The CRTC and FCC also fine broadcasters and decide which channels are and are not allowed to be broadcast in North America and which shows can and can not be shown. Freedom indeed.
and you have to start looking to the real world for the protectors of our freedom. Not pipe dreams that'll only depress you when you find out what they really are.
We are the protectors of our own freedom or we are not free. As for "pipe dreams" I discussed earlier and as for depression speak for yourself. I've got faith in the sky, faith in the one, faith in all the people rocking underneath the sun. I got troubles with no one and no one got troubles with me because the universe is a wonderful place and I love life. I've seen the way things can be and see the problems with the way the world is now, I'm willing to dream and say what you will but nothing is impossible. So when push comes to shove I'll keep my optimistic attitude over your pessimistic ignorance. I hope one day you realize that just because you're told something is right doesn't make it right, you clearly need to question more.
I love you all! Peace!
