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Author Topic: America, prepare to be liberated.  (Read 3781 times)

Offline Myroria

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Re: America, prepare to be liberated.
« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2008, 10:35:21 PM »
That's not as much of a good statistic as murders per 100,000 people. America is the third most populous country in the world; of course we'll have more murders annually, especially when our competition is a nation that rules its people with an iron fist and a nation who's dominant religion teaches murder is always wrong (As opposed to Christianity, which teaches that murder is by and large acceptable for immoral people). When you shorten every nation's population to 100,000, the amount murdered gives a good idea. I would still rather live in America than El Salvador or Colombia, but to be honest I would much rather live in The Netherlands or Austria.
"I assure you -- I will be quite content to be a mere mortal again, dedicated to my own amusements."

Offline Xyrael

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Re: America, prepare to be liberated.
« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2008, 12:10:17 AM »
Hilary Clinton, socialist? HAH. I bet she'll flip flop on her economic policy like she did with her original Iraqi war policy. I'd rather vote Bill into office again, and he deregulated business far more than Bush ever did. If Hilary was smart, she'd follow her husbands policies, which are far from leftist. Communism involves direct state ownership, Myroria, anything less does not count as communistic. Furthermore, socialism usually requires heavy government control, with a large public sector in heavy industry. Although, so does Corporatism, which often includes state management of investment. America includes heavy subsidies, without which American farmers would lose large amounts of profit. The American car industry is failing, and is pleading the government for subsidies, and many republicans are like "omg i don't want to buy rice rockets". Seems like a double standard, we want the free market to take control, but god forbid should our businesses fail in the process.

And I'm not speaking to our libertarian forum-goers, you don't count as average republicans.

The ideas being tossed around talking about sales taxes replacing income taxes are fine at face value, but what exactly are they taxing for sales tax? Would there be a sales tax for services, would sales tax be flat or increase with interest, would sales tax discourage buyers from making new purchases? Would not sales tax increase the influence of the black market (which might seem like oh my god illegal activities, but nearly everyone in america has been involved with a 'black market' of some sort. The word black market is an ignorant word for an economic system, much like terra incognita is an ignorant word for everything unexplored and dark matter is an ignorant word for unidentified space junk) by making the average person, who wants to avoid larger prices, purchase goods from people directly via yard sales etc? Last I remember I never reported selling my iPod or reported my purchase of a computer from my friend to the government (aka black market) so sales tax would not be applied to those goods... Sales tax is a good idea, but people need to think about it more before jumping the gun and instituting premature ideas.

The democratic party is being idiotic in it's bid to win republican votes. A white woman married to a man who got caught with a woman under his desk and a black man whose name sounds islamic to half the ignorant people of the south is NOT a way to win republican votes, and if people think the republican party is somehow weakened by Bushes failings they are idiotic, most republicans are All But Bush, meaning theyll still vote republican and aren't dissuaded from the republican party. Personally I would not be shocked if the Democrats lost this election because theyre playing their cards poorly, they need to win republicans over, not play to the same people guaranteed to vote for them anyways.
I have become, again and again.

Offline j delight

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Re: America, prepare to be liberated.
« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2008, 01:22:43 AM »
Xyrael: And I'm not speaking to our libertarian forum-goers, you don't count as average republicans.


"Libertarianesque" Republicans IOW. Old school types who have long lost their influence in the Republican party to the NeoCons.  In most countries in the world, Libertarians are closer to Anarchists.  For some reason in the U.S. Anarchists get lumped in with Democrats, and Libertarians are seen as whacko religious rightwingers, also a complete misinterpretation.  Doublespeak anyone? 
just a bit of trouble now and then
"touch my food - feel my fork".

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Offline Xyrael

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Re: America, prepare to be liberated.
« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2008, 04:43:00 AM »
Libertarians are a minority in America, NeoCons have usurped them as average republicans.

The American political spectrum is center-right as a standard, with greens barely reaching center-left. The last time the American political spectrum was balanced towards the center was the 1920's election, when the socialist candidate (from his jail cell) campaigned and won 20% of the votes. After than America began to shift right, with a brief relapse during world war 2, then a complete turn to the right under truman. Democrats in the 1960's and 70's can't be considered leftist because they resisted the hippies, which are much more left-leaning. They were more centrist, promoting social reforms but little in the way of economic reform. The democratic party has continued this same path. Contemporary democratic and republican party stances of economic policy is almost indiscernible. Their social policies, however, are quite a bit different. This is be due to the fact that the republicans have a larger base of support from the rural religious while the democrats have support from urban non-religious. For the republicans to keep the support of their base, they play towards god (no abortion, altho pro-life pro-death pro-war penalty remains paradoxical imo) and they play towards less taxes (the rural and suburban family live within houses and can afford their homes and like less taxes) the democrats play towards the urban and 'intellectual', social support because often cost of living within urban centers is far higher and the majority of jobs less stable, higher competition for work, etc. I've lived in both suburban Houston and urban Los Angeles, the differences in thought between the residents of each are vast.

The economic policies... well I don't see hilary advocating for a ministry of trade to direct your investment and i don't see her lobbying to nationalize Ford to keep the japanese from buying it. They differ on minute issues like a slight tax increase or where to draw the taxes from. When was the last time they seriously debated nationalizing insurance companies. I remember they brought up the idea about national healthcare once upon a time, and that was on the news in the LA Times for maybe a day.
I have become, again and again.

Offline The Empire

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Re: America, prepare to be liberated.
« Reply #34 on: January 26, 2008, 10:29:43 AM »
(As opposed to Christianity, which teaches that murder is by and large acceptable for immoral people).

I do hope you realise that the above statement is very far from true Christian teachings and could actually be considdered heretic. The source of the above misconception has the roots in the corrupt and not-christian-in-anything-but-name Roman papacies of the 11th through 14th centuries and is a natural deviation from the concepts of the crusade that is just as heretic per definition. Islam today is suffering from the same type of heretical demagouges claiming to speak for everyone and 'knowing' god's will.

/Off topic

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Offline Delfos

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Re: America, prepare to be liberated.
« Reply #35 on: January 26, 2008, 02:59:09 PM »
twisted mind, Christianity claims all killing is a sin, all creatures are made by god, all creatures are equal. Yes we're all sinners, that's the big deal of Christianity.

Offline The Empire

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Re: America, prepare to be liberated.
« Reply #36 on: January 26, 2008, 04:27:48 PM »
Well, the sin concept is also a latter remake by the power-hungry roman papacies... even though it's not an outright heresy as it doesn't go against the teachings of the new testament, which in all contradictive texts supercedes the old one. It's as if the US would take on a complete revision of their constitution effectively nullifying and replacing most of the old one and clarifying other parts.

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Offline Anniane

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Re: America, prepare to be liberated.
« Reply #37 on: January 26, 2008, 09:03:02 PM »
This is about the time where someone quotes the Bible out of context. I feel like doing so:

Quote from: Deuteronomy 32:39-42,46, New International Version
39 "See now that I myself am He!
       There is no god besides me.
       I put to death and I bring to life,
       I have wounded and I will heal,
       and no one can deliver out of my hand.

 40 I lift my hand to heaven and declare:
       As surely as I live forever,

 41 when I sharpen my flashing sword
       and my hand grasps it in judgment,
       I will take vengeance on my adversaries
       and repay those who hate me.

 42 I will make my arrows drunk with blood,
       while my sword devours flesh:
       the blood of the slain and the captives,
       the heads of the enemy leaders."

 [...]

 46 [...][Moses] said to them, "Take to heart all the words I have solemnly declared to you this day, so that you may command your children to obey carefully all the words of this law."

Not that I have anything to say about the debate. I just like quoting the Bible.

Offline The Empire

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Re: America, prepare to be liberated.
« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2008, 11:46:28 AM »
And that's the old testament, and thus Jewish rules, outdated by the new testament.

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Offline Of Crazed

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Re: America, prepare to be liberated.
« Reply #39 on: January 27, 2008, 04:34:07 PM »
LOL
05/04/2008- Never Forget

Offline Delfos

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Re: America, prepare to be liberated.
« Reply #40 on: January 27, 2008, 05:13:59 PM »
This is about the time where someone quotes the Bible out of context. I feel like doing so:

Quote from: Deuteronomy 32:39-42,46, New International Version
39 "See now that I myself am He!
       There is no god besides me.
       I put to death and I bring to life,
       I have wounded and I will heal,
       and no one can deliver out of my hand.

 40 I lift my hand to heaven and declare:
       As surely as I live forever,

 41 when I sharpen my flashing sword
       and my hand grasps it in judgment,
       I will take vengeance on my adversaries
       and repay those who hate me.

 42 I will make my arrows drunk with blood,
       while my sword devours flesh:
       the blood of the slain and the captives,
       the heads of the enemy leaders."

 [...]

 46 [...][Moses] said to them, "Take to heart all the words I have solemnly declared to you this day, so that you may command your children to obey carefully all the words of this law."

Not that I have anything to say about the debate. I just like quoting the Bible.

Does that say that god or jesus told them to kill stuff?

Offline The Empire

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Re: America, prepare to be liberated.
« Reply #41 on: January 27, 2008, 05:36:10 PM »
No, that specific text says that God has those rights in the old testament, not that humans had them.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2008, 05:38:10 PM by The Empire »

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Offline Myroria

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Re: America, prepare to be liberated.
« Reply #42 on: January 29, 2008, 02:49:46 AM »
"We had the Old Testament, and that book wasn't good enough...for you Christians. So you made a sequel, and said you're was Neeeew and ours was Oooold. 'We gotta better story, with a better character, you're GONNA LOVE IT!'"
"I assure you -- I will be quite content to be a mere mortal again, dedicated to my own amusements."

Offline The Empire

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Re: America, prepare to be liberated.
« Reply #43 on: January 29, 2008, 09:30:10 PM »
Pretty much, yeah. Then a countless number of people did what power-hungry people always do with religions, no exceptions: They perverted it to suit their own agendas and got part of their perversions permanented for future hawks to use at their lesiure.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2008, 09:37:55 PM by The Empire »

Join the Word Bearer legion and brin glory to the dark gods! Taijitu stalker extraordinaire - no Taijituan presses a key without my knowledge, Resident Cannibal - I prefer females, Resident ginormous dragon - It is not a good idea to mess with a dragon who is packing heavy firepower