Taijitu v. Govindia

[Osamafune]

[13:39] <Limi> On October 5th, 2007 I received information from TAO showing actions that Ramaba had been copying classified threads from TWP and handing them out to other regions.
[13:39] <GMT> *notes that TAO is the delegate of NS The West Pacific

As a reminder, Govindia (aka Ramaba) was banned over a month after this has happened. The prosecution has yet to clarify this, it can only be assumed that it never happened. We already know that there were other charges placed upon Govindia that led to his banning in TWP.

[14:05] <Limi> no it has not. I saw him only as a threat to regional security when banning him based upon the information I received from TAO

Someone committing a crime in another region does not make the same act a crime here. Govindia should not be convicted here based on anything that he might have done in another region.

[14:24] <Limi> there is no direct evidence of him committing the action as there is no way to log if a topic is downloaded
[14:24] <GMT> Is there evidence of threads or info copied from Taijitu and posted in another region?
[14:26] <Limi> there is no evidence that he copied threads from Taijitu and gave it to another region because information like that would be kept as secret as possible in the region he gave it to

So there is no evidence that he has been copying information and passing it out to other regions.  That would mean he is not a security threat as he doesn’t have any special access to copy threads from in the first place.

Now, if a person or region had been recieving this intelligence, why would they say anything to us about it if they planned to keep it? Why would they want to stop the flow of such information? If they came forward to say that they have recieved this information, they should not have any reason not to tell us what he copied. If they liked the information and wanted to keep it, they would not come forward to us about it. The same thing goes for any informants that might have passed this intelligence along to us.

[14:21] <Limi> but had also expressed interest in joining the army and becoming a deputy minister in addition to applying to be a Senator and becoming a recruiter

He never did join the Army, he withdrew his senator application, and he did not "express interest in becoming a deputy minister."

[16:42] <Limi> I would say it is very reasonable because I also passed the information to flemingovia and stated the actions would be undone if he asked. Upon coming on he publicly stated his approval of this action based upon the information that was received

Flemingovia's testimony contradicts this.

Limi did not give specific details, but said that he was acting on intel information he had received.

So according to Flemingovia, Limi did not pass any information to him about what Govindia had done.  Both statements contradict each other.

[16:46] <GMT> I was asking if you feel that a preemptive action was necessary and if you stand by your decision, although no direct evidence of Govindia's malicious intentions is at hand.

Please note that nowhere is there a law that allows for the banning of a citizen as a preemptive measure.

Limi did not give specific details, but said that he was acting on intel information he had received.

Now let us look at this quote from Flemingovia, which I personally think is very strange that a person has been banned here by the root admin yet he does not give specific details? Is this seriously happening, that an admin can say he has banned someone from the forum because on intel information which he does not give specifics on? “Oh, I banned him but can tell you why.” Lets put it in a real life situation here, imagine your mother is arrested suddenly one day and you ask the natural question: why? The answer: she is dangerous but can't give you the specifics. Oh, that makes it all fine then, I suppose.

Imagine it in a case of law, such as this – it would be thrown out for just being plain illegal. You would certainly want her released or in our case, unbanned for this action! 

< 12flemingovia > And it is suggested in some quarters that I am head of Intel for that same feeder.
< 12flemingovia > the North Pacific Intel Agency
< 12flemingovia > I have been involved in espionage many times in NS.
< 12flemingovia > Both in terms of managing agents and acting as a sleeper myself.

So, here we have our citizen whos greatest position of power is an ambassador so hardly privy to sensitive information yet accused of being a spy…
Our delegate (at the time) works for other regions collecting intel.
One question: who has the most access to the material that could damage our region yet who is on trial?  I would like to reiterate that my client does not have the same level of access to information in this region as Flemingovia possibly could have had.  My client’s only position in this region has been an Ambassador and nothing else.   I do apologise at this point as I only use Flemingovia as an example here, in no way do I suggest he has acted against the region, passed on sensitive information about this region to other regions or done anything illegal. I also apologise for any offense caused.

< 12flemingovia > I would also need to say that Intel is a shadowy world - it often depends on judgment calls based on instinct as much as proof. And as delegate I chose to trust the judgment of Limi whose access and involvement in this matter was far greater than mine.

Please tell me you did not ban my client because of instinct when before you have said you do not like him (in as many words) and you are not surprised at all by this whole incident? Would that cloud your instinct and judgement? Would mine, but maybe I am less of a person in these areas than you…

< 07GMT > Based on what you were shown in terms of "proof" by the Root Limitless Events, how did you evaluate the threat posed by Govindia?

Even the prosecution here had to put proof in inverted commas… Enough said really!

< 12flemingovia > One last thing: No doubt there are those who will look at the above and say that those in authority in Taijitu acted in a draconian manner, and poor Govindia has been badly, even illegally, treated.

It has already been proved that Govindia has been treated illegally to an extent (constant harassment and the fact that he was banned without a public statement given).

< 06Korinn >He begged for days about it and when I gave him the position

When reading the application topic, it shows Korinn accepting his application the day it was made.

< 06Korinn > I see that as being a two part thing. On one side, he is a possible in-game threat. He could pass information to other regions if allowed access.

Anybody can pass along information to other regions if given access. However, Govindia was NOT given access. The two most important areas of the forum are the Senate and Ministry of Defense private forums. Govindia never applied for the Army and withdrew his application for the Senate.

< 06Korinn > There have been rumors, and they might just be that, but rumors that he has already spied on anther region once before.

Flemingovia has just admitted to being the head of intelligence for a feeder. Spying... in one way or another, that's a job for intelligence, correct?  Since Flemingovia has been involved in espionage for another region other than Taijitu, wouldn't that discredit him as well?

At any rate, there is no proof of this and it should be treated as just that: a rumor.

Correction: We wonder why Gov was banned a whole month after TAO came to Limitless Events to say that he had been copying info. We already know why there was no trial until Gov appealed the ban, as Ithania clearly pointed out the reason for that.

I would ask the defense-team to please re-check their calendar and the actual flow of events. We kindly inform the defense team that THERE CAN BE NO TRIAL until the one in case appeals the ban (I do believe you insisted we call it a "forum restriction" but we will try to be flexible).

*sigh*
We know that there could not be a trial until one appeals the ban, but this is NOT the issue! The issue is, why did TAO wait over a month to ban Govindia if he had proof of him copying sensitive material in TWP?  Why was no evidence adequately presented to allow Gov to defend against such false accusations of being a security threat and committing treason?

The appeal that has been mentioned is not even about this trial, it is about the TWP trial.

Perhaps you could clarify just how one would try and access a forum one cannot even see on the forum?

It is the same way that somebody can log-in using subversive methods although being banned. Forums can be broken into, and some boards can (or better to say could) be seen but not accessed without a password.

That strikes me as... odd... So the charge placed on Govindia, that he has been copying and dispersing Taijituan information, occured after he was banned? I didn't even know we had password protected forums, so that's a new one on me.

But I know you are probably talking about the TWP charge of copying and dispersing information, even though I had meant to ask how one would copy information from Taijitu if they could not see the forum. Sorry for not being more clear.

However, you claimed that Oz was monitoring his movements. Are you sure? What you just said implies that he was banned at the time Oz did this. Oz resigned from the MoRS some time ago. Why would Oz be the one monitoring his actions now?

Perhaps you can explain this some more?

What does this matter? She clearly stated that most of her activity is at TWP. Ithania is a citizen in TWP and currently holds a leadership position. Limitless Event's UN nation isn't in Taijitu, should that make his testimony doubtful?

It matters because you have tried to boost what the witness said by presenting her as something she is not. You have brought a TWPer with foreign origins and invented diverse official capacities for her *she corrected you herself, look at your own interview* in order to match a statement given by the out most TWP authority.

Another lie. It was a simple mistake, Govindia was under the impression that she was still a deputy because she was still carrying out duties associated with the foreign affairs ministry. As she says, she "helps out when asked." Govindia, who is banned and thus does not have access to their forum, would not have necessarily known she was not the deputy foreign minister.

Now, let us look at Myroria's statement:
Myroria is mirroring his own personal problems with the fact that once order was restored to the IRC channel of Taijitu he himself was not named a Chanel Operator and had to wait for the order to be re-established to get his Ops back.

You have no proof that this had any affect on his testimony. If it did, then it could have clearly affected Oz's, disposition towards Govindia, as he was the one to have made the biggest fuss about it. However, I do doubt that.

Keep in mind that when Limitless Events initially banned Govindia, it was Myroria who unbanned him. To the defense, this signals that his testimony is not a result of "mirroring his own personal problems."

(Govindia being one of the mayhem-factors)

I don't recall that. I DO recall St. Oz going berserk, however. Personally, I did not see Govindia as a mayhem-factor. It was Oz's going berserk that sparked everything. 

What the forum evidence is concerned, again Myroria must not be shown any of it based on his quality as a founder.

Who can be any more trusted than a founder; someone who has been around since the birth of the region and has shown a great deal of loyalty to it?

This is again, for all to see, the classic Govindia if I may call it so, namely he has always been trying to refuse the established decision factors and circumvent them by going to other players, and pressuring them into speaking in his behalf. Any of you who has come in contact with the defendant will know what I am talking about.

I don't.

[Osamafune]

I am Govindia.  My Taijituan nation is Arvengovi.

I have a UN nation, but it is with an active defender force outside this region.  It has never been used in any operation against Taijitu in any way, shape, or form.

I have disclosed my UN status to Gnoled Ttam when he was at the time, Minister of Internal Affairs at the time.  I do not know if he still is in that position, but I was trusted enough to be granted citizenship.

I refused to disclose my UN nation to Meridianland because of her known links to DEN.  She is a member of DEN, a raider region.  If I were to disclose my UN nation to her, how can I trust her that she won’t feed the information to DEN, who could use it for intel for any future operations?

I came here because I was told that this region was active in terms of RPing.  So I spoke with Talmann and Gallipoli-China for a bit about the RP policies, and after hearing their thoughts on some of the RP stuff, I needed to step away for a bit and re-plan my nation to fit the RP policies of Taijitu.  This was around May, and I went on a hiatus for a bit, as I was nearing the end of Spring Quarter at uni. and needed to finish my schoolwork so I could graduate on time, and start the formal process for my job offer that I got with the company that I work for in CA.

Things started to ease up a bit in summer, and I returned.  Once again, to RP.  I went through the citizenship process above and got citizenship.  After being on the IRC channel for quite some time and being on the forum, I really liked this region.  For once, I was in a region that I thought was friendly to everyone, regardless of where they came from.

When I applied for a map spot on the Taijituan map, as I wanted to RP, was where my troubles started.  At first, St. Oz refused to grant me access to the map, as he was also Minister of Regional Security at the time, with Meri as his Deputy.  He repeatedly, in a harsh and insulting manner, refused to put me on the map until I disclosed my UN nation to him.  Now, everyone knew at the time I was a member of The West Pacific, and TWP’s military, a defender force.  It was obvious to put two and two together enough without forcing me to disclose my UN nation.  However, in a fit of rage, St. Oz banned me from the channel that night, three times, as well as from the forum three times.  He eventually was forced to lift both bans as his actions were regarded as out of line and unconstitutional, and I believe he eventually lost op powers on the IRC channel.   

One thing that’s been focused on has been my behaviour towards other people, that I stalk women, and that I am a national security threat.  I have never stalked anyone in my entire life, and I don’t intend to do so.  I have been falsely accused of stalking in real life and was proven wrong, but because of the political correctness of the university’s kangaroo court of a “Student Conduct” court system (a system that takes hearsay into account and doesn’t allow character witnesses), any male that is accused of something by a female gets punished no matter  if the female is wrong or not.  It was declared that the stalking claim was exaggerated and false, but I still was forced to go on probation for a year, and attend a healthy relationship class by the Women’s Centre at my uni.  Why?  To make the female accuser happy even though her claim was grossly exaggerated.   

I’ll admit, I have social flaws.  More pronounced than others.  Some of my symptoms can mirror that of people who have Aspberger’s Syndrome or are autistic, but I am not either of them.  It was already diagnosed that I do not have any mental condition or disorder, nor do I need to be on any medication for such things.  All my life I was an academic bookworm so I did not really concentrate much on socialising with others.  My parents were wanting me to get the best grades possible and focus on that only so I can be successful in business.  With the business leadership training I had, I was successful in the companies that I worked for.  I was social in such workplace environments and the teams I worked in got along well with me and valued my skills and contributions.  At a place like my uni, it was different.  Almost like a foreign country.  I didn’t know how to socialise with people, and people thought me as awkward.  I had received social councelling, and made great progress, but I had to struggle after a year’s worth of councelling to pick it up again, as all my initial progress got shot to hell in 2004.  Mum died in a catastrophic fashion, for which the details I am not legally allowed to publicly tell anyone due to an agreement I signed with the hospital’s lawyers.  Suffice to say in the aftermath, my family turned their grief on me and blamed me for Mum’s suffering (even though other circumstances showed she had already suffered by the time I got there), and my closest friends betrayed and abandoned me.  Feeling distraught and depressed as I felt with little support from anyone, I made my second near-attempt at suicide.   

Since then I had rebounded from that and improved with my social councelling and had more supportive friends.  The psychologist who diagnosed me earlier as having no mental condition or disorder has stated that I have had great difficulties in learning how to adapt socially, and that I have made progress since I first started councelling, but because of how late I started, the flaws are still deep that they are going to take a long time, and those with real patience and understanding will only understand this to a certain extent.  I have made mistakes before in my attempts to learn how to be social yes, but as I am trying to improve, but I’ve noticed that as I tried to change and show change, people here continue to have prejudiced attitudes towards me that I am a harmful person, and I can’t do anything with such prejudiced attitudes not allowing me to show I am a decent friend if one actually opens their mind up and tries to get to know me better.

In some respects, some people here have shown such willingness and have considered me their friends.  Soly and Thel for instance, continue to talk to me and enjoy talking with me about various things.  Are they aware of stuff that has happened to me in the past?  Yes they are, but they know I’m trying to work on my flaws, and are doing their best to assist me with this.

As I said before I came here to RP initially, not to be discriminated against.  I then decided I wanted to contribute to this region and help out where it was needed.  Even though I was in the process of getting my security clearance for my job and moving to a new state 3,000 miles across the country, I wanted to still try and help out.  I applied to be an ambassador and I got the job.  I withdrew my application from the Senate as I was focusing on relocation to the new state and didn’t have time for it.  I applied to be a recruiter and was denied, for a reason in which I still have not been given an honest answer for.  I felt I was discriminated in this regard because I was the only citizen who I saw was denied a recruitment job and not given an honest answer, while others either were accepted, or got a reasonable answer why they were denied, such as they weren’t in the region long enough.  I cannot understand how recruiting is a security risk as it only involves sending TGs to the feeders asking them to come to our region, only through an automated system rather than manually TGing each new nation to come to us.

The discrimination continued.  For 5-6 more weeks, St. Oz continually refused to deny me a plot to the map on Taijitu so I can RP.   I was frustrated, and some others were frustrated as well that I could not RP because I was not given a map spot, which I felt I needed for accurate and proper RP, especially for any RP war I would be doing with any other nation.  I fulfilled all the other criteria that was needed to get on the  map, and when I publicly posted asking about this, St. Oz deleted my posts  each time I asked.  I asked him over IRC, and he stated he won’t add people he doesn’t like, and he wanted me to initially bribe him with 25 percent of my tai, which was not much considering I haven’t posted a lot on the forum.  He then said I was feeder scum, and that he didn’t like me and that he won’t add me on the map.  He continued to delete my posts in the map thread when I asked him about it.  Frustrated that my voice was not being heard on the forum, I took it to the channel and asked him to add me to the map, given the plot I had requested.  To me, it should not take more than a week to add someone to the map, especially if someone like me wants to RP and has met the map application criteria.  Oz at that point then gave me a plot, but labelled my nation as a “Bitch Republic”, an obvious flame.  I then asked him to cut it out and add my nation back with the proper name and he refused.  Limi shortly thereafter banned me from the channel saying I can’t discuss forum business or government business on the channel.  Last I checked, people talk about forum matters from the channel all the time, be it the government threads or otherwise, and no one has been banned for it.  Shortly thereafter, i was informed of the “forum restriction.”

Since then, which was October, no evidence has been presented to me to show I am a public security threat.  It has been speculated that I am a stalker, a security threat, and a horrible person.  If I was a security threat, I would not have gotten my security clearance for my job.  The investigators looked through every aspect of my past and questioned whom they needed to, and they know about my past social history.  They know that I have made progress and that I love my country, and that is why they gave me that clearance.

I am not a security threat to this region.  The only “private” access I have ever gotten was to the Ministry of External Affairs as an Ambassador, and even there nothing is sensitive enough that people don’t already know about – like the updates and where each person is an ambassador, and essentially a lounge for us.  That’s it.  I never had any intention to join the Taijituan Army, I was only curious about what exactly it does, since each region’s army is different.  I had no access to any other area.  Each of the regions I have been in know that I am not a threat.  Otherwise, I wouldn’t be in those regions.

As Thel and others have stated, I am not a bad person.  A misunderstood one, as Thel told me once, that people do not understand about.  To quote Batman Begins, “people fear what they don’t understand.”  I’ve noticed that people who are not well understood are viewed as suspicious, and those who are not really social are considered to be awkward and creepy.  This is not me experiencing the treatment alone.  I have seen poor Barakarin mistreated poorly even though he doesn’t understand a few things, and others.  I was under the impression that this region is friendly to anyone who comes here, regardless if they are from feeders or not.  Being socially awkward, and not a social extrovert, does not mean one is a security threat to this region.  I find it very hypocritical how in some cases people are allowed to slander and defame others, yet are not punished.  I find it hypocritical how someone like Meri is allowed to troll the forum and IRC, insulting people and be obnoxious to anyone she thinks has a bias towards defenders, and how at one point she accused me of being a fraudulent Hindu for not remembering one of the holidays.  Yet I have to be punished for being socially awkward, while trying to fit in.  Very few people have given me a reasonable chance to show I am a friendly person who has much to contribute to this region in terms of RP and otherwise, but it seems the reputation of being one of the most friendliest regions in NS is hampered by allowing outside prejudices of people to cloud judgment instead of keeping an open mind.

[Osamafune]

Your Honors, depending upon any further statements and replies by the prosecution, this may very well be our closing statement.

All along, it has been the position of the defense that the charges of harassment are results of exaggerations and misunderstandings. We still believe in this. As Thel D'Ran testified, Govindia was turning over a new leaf; trying to amend his "bad reputation." Ultimately, this bad reputation would lead to the exaggerations and misunderstandings.

The prosecution has failed to provide any examples of crimes committed in Taijitu, other than that he has copied information from Taijitu. No time has cases where Govindia broke Article I, section 2, 4, and 6 in Taijitu been mentioned. One of which, Section 4, is obviously false. His post count has shown that he does not even post enough on the forum for such a charge to be considered valid.  Though the prosecution has decided to bring in outside witnesses to testify of crimes he committed soley in TWP, crimes of which evidence has yet to be provided and in some cases are doubtful that they have even occured (ie. TAO not banning Govindia until a whole month after he came forward claiming he had been copying sensitive material), Article I: section 7 (the dissemination of classified materials vital to the security) remains the only crime supposedly committed in Taijitu that he has ever mentioned. I will refer to a previous analogy I used: For the court to convict Govindia for crimes committed elsewhere is like Canada bringing me to court for murder against an American in the United States. It just doesn't make sense.

Now onto Article I: Section 7. No evidence has been presented publicly that Govindia has tried to illegally access any private forums. It then is the defense's position that he did not try to illegally access the forums. It is quite obvious that he did not try to enter these forums legally either. At the time of his restriction, the only hidden forum he had access to was the Ambassador HQ forum. There is no secret information in this forum. One could find out everything there is to find in this forum by simply going out to the regions we have embassies with. Govindia never did apply for the Army, withdrew his Senate application, and was denied a position as a recruiter (something that has yet to be fully explained to him). This means that it was impossible for Govindia to access any sensitive, private, or top-secret information. Govindia could not and did not break Article I: Section 7.  The prosecution has deliberately withheld evidence from the defence.  Evidence that could allow us to better help my client and show the region that this trial is fair.  Not showing it to us shows how the prosecution is not willing to allow a fair trial because of evidence being withheld deliberately and in a discriminatory fashion.  This, coupled with how the prosecution has referred to my client as a virus, a troll, and a traitor, and then  making a racist remark to Feudal Japan with Govindia’s association with them, show how much the prosecution really care about the court’s wishes, and how has repeatedly defied their requests to be civil and respectful.

As stated previously, Meridianland's testimony is clearly biased, as she has little to no trust for defenders. Flemingovia testified to not recieving specific information regarding the threat supposedly posed by the defendant. He claims to have acted by "instinct," instinct which could have clearly been clouded by him not liking Govindia, as Flemingovia also testified too. Korinn, while not officially on the prosecution, has obviously been working on the prosecution, thus giving a hint of bias in his testimony as well.

We believe that Myroria, a founder of Taijitu, is correct when he testified that this has happened for no other reason than that he was not well liked. As Delfos has testified, similar things have happened to those not very well liked within the region. We also believe that Govindia was trying to turn over a new leaf, but his old reputation prevented people from trusting and/or believing him, as Alexander Solan and Thel D'Ran have testified to. Just because one is not well liked is not a reason to ban them from any region or forum.


Your honors, the defendant, Govindia, is innocent.

[Flemingovia]

Please tell me you did not ban my client because of instinct when before you have said you do not like him (in as many words) and you are not surprised at all by this whole incident? Would that cloud your instinct and judgement? Would mine, but maybe I am less of a person in these areas than you…

Leaving the sarcasm aside, since I have been addressed by a direct question from counsel, I assume I can respond?

When you asked me for testimony you asked me why I banned Govindia (then) and what I think of Govindia (now). In your use of my testimony, you are choosing to conflate these two things.

At no time have I said or suggested that my banning of Govindia was influenced by dislike of him, and at no time have I given testimony as to what my opinion of Govindia was at the time of his banning.

To answer your question directly: My decision was emphatically NOT clouded by dislike of Govindia personally. At the time, I was one of those arguing on Govindia's behalf every time he made an asshat of himself on IRC etc. I have logs which show this.

My attitude towards Gov has hardened since his banning, it is true, mainly because I have seen more of his behaviour and come to believe that it is not as simple as him needing  yet another chance to "turn over a new leaf".

[Govindia]

With all due respect fleming, this was a question we were asking the court, not you, and this thread is only for the justices, defence, and prosecution to respond, no one else, as pointed out clearly at the beginning of this trial.

[Flemingovia]

Please tell me you did not ban my client....

this was a question we were asking the court, not you,

Please look at what was posted. It was clearly a question directed at me, not the court. If I cannot answer, why ask? I was assuming this came under the category of examination of witnesses.

I suggest you consult with your team and work out who is asking questions of whom, where and when.

[Govindia]

If my defence team wanted to ask you, we would have asked you directly and addressed you as such.  Please do not assume.

Again, with all due respect, I refer you to the rules laid out forth for this trial, by Delegate Pragmia:

The only people allowed to post in the trial thread are the Justices, Prosecution and Defense. Anyone else posting will be considered a deliberate attempt to derail the trial. Any issues can be delivered to the Justices via a PM.

[Flemingovia]

If my defence team wanted to ask you, we would have asked you directly and addressed you as such.

Erm... they did!!!

Do not worry yourself responding, and so clogging up this thread. I have asked a justice for an opinion.

Happy Arudra Darshanam

[The G Rebellion]

Enough. Since I asked for closing statements by midnight on the 24th, we can consider this closed now. The judges will discuss and deliver a verdict soon.

[Allama]

For the record, here is the decision of the Supreme Court in the case of Taijitu vs. Govindia:


Ruling:
On the charges of violations of

2. The dissemination of private materials of any Citizen of Taijitu as defined in Section 3 of this article shall be forbidden, excepting where authorized by that Citizen or Citizens, or by a warrant of the Supreme Court of Taijitu issued on probable cause.

and

6. The harassment of any person shall be forbidden.

we find the defendant GUILTY.

On the charges of violations of

4. Excessive and unnecessary posting with the intent to disrupt or provoke shall be forbidden.

and

7. The dissemination of classified materials vital to the security of the region shall be forbidden, and the Executive Government of Taijitu shall be given the authority to declare materials classified on a reasoned basis.

we find the defendant NOT GUILTY.


Sentencing:
Govindia's citizenship is hereby revoked for a period of three months at which point he will be permitted to re-apply, and a continued banning in the Taijitu IRC channel is suggested.

[Osamafune]

Your honors,

The defense requests some clarification on the reasonings behind the verdicts and sentences given. For example, we have no idea how the court came to the conclusion that the defendant is guilty of "The dissemination of private materials of any Citizen of Taijitu as defined in Section 3 of this article shall be forbidden, excepting where authorized by that Citizen or Citizens, or by a warrant of the Supreme Court of Taijitu issued on probable cause" and "The harassment of any person shall be forbidden." To the best of our recollection, the prosecution did not provide evidence towards such claims, nor presented any specific occasions when it happened. We are not trying to alter the verdicts or the sentence and accept the outcome the court has already presented to us, but we would still like to request clarification.
 
We would also like to request some clarification on the sentencing. Previously, G-C mentioned that it was undecided on whether or not Govindia was still a citizen. This, of course, was well before the verdict. Also, the prosecution was steadfast on asserting that Govindia's citizenship had been revoked, all the while calling our client such vile names as a troll, a traitor, and a virus, and making racist remarks against Japanese people. Depending upon what the court has decided upon this, then the defendant has already had his citizenship revoked for four months. In a sense, he has already served his sentence. Will Govindia then be serving an additional three months with his citizenship revoked? Does this mean he is no longer an Ambassador (he is still listed as the ambassador to The Exodus)?  Also, it appears that Govindia will still have forum access. If so, why not grant him IRC access? What is so different about the two that requires him to be banned from one, but not the other?
 
In regards to Govindia's forum access, it is not a right bestowed upon citizens. There are numerous active members on our forum who do not have citizenship, but still have full forum access (ie. Loyan). Anybody who registers on our forum can see nearly all of it. Since citizenship is not a requirement for forum access, and the court only ruled that his citizenship be revoked, not his forum access, the defense would like to make one last request: Please ensure that Govindia's forum access is restored as soon as possible.

[Zimmerwald]

The defense requests some clarification on the reasonings behind the verdicts and sentences given. For example, we have no idea how the court came to the conclusion that the defendant is guilty of "The dissemination of private materials of any Citizen of Taijitu as defined in Section 3 of this article shall be forbidden, excepting where authorized by that Citizen or Citizens, or by a warrant of the Supreme Court of Taijitu issued on probable cause" and "The harassment of any person shall be forbidden." To the best of our recollection, the prosecution did not provide evidence towards such claims, nor presented any specific occasions when it happened. We are not trying to alter the verdicts or the sentence and accept the outcome the court has already presented to us, but we would still like to request clarification.

The opinion of the Court, which was unanimous, will be released at the same time as other confidential documents, excepting those which contain personally sensitive information (IP addresses and suchlike).  In the case of the latter, a summary of the evidence will be provided, or a version which removes the confidential information.  The release of Court documents is required by law; don't worry, you'll see them.

We would also like to request some clarification on the sentencing. Previously, G-C mentioned that it was undecided on whether or not Govindia was still a citizen. This, of course, was well before the verdict. Also, the prosecution was steadfast on asserting that Govindia's citizenship had been revoked, all the while calling our client such vile names as a troll, a traitor, and a virus, and making racist remarks against Japanese people. Depending upon what the court has decided upon this, then the defendant has already had his citizenship revoked for four months. In a sense, he has already served his sentence.

By law, a non-citizen does not have to be brought before the Court.  Since Govindia was a citizen at the time of his restriction, he retained his citizenship up until the issuance of this verdict.  Depriving Govindia of his citizenship prior to verdict by the Court would have been in violation of both the Constitution and of Court practice.  Thus we can safely say that Govindia was a citizen throughout the Court process.

Will Govindia then be serving an additional three months with his citizenship revoked? Does this mean he is no longer an Ambassador (he is still listed as the ambassador to The Exodus)?

Yes and yes.

Also, it appears that Govindia will still have forum access. If so, why not grant him IRC access? What is so different about the two that requires him to be banned from one, but not the other?

The Court deliberately did not grant a hard and fast sentence relating to IRC because the Justices that ruled in this case thought that the Court's power over the IRC channel was limited.

In regards to Govindia's forum access, it is not a right bestowed upon citizens. There are numerous active members on our forum who do not have citizenship, but still have full forum access (ie. Loyan). Anybody who registers on our forum can see nearly all of it. Since citizenship is not a requirement for forum access, and the court only ruled that his citizenship be revoked, not his forum access, the defense would like to make one last request: Please ensure that Govindia's forum access is restored as soon as possible.

Yes, this is true; Govindia should be given a normal member mask.

[Osamafune]

Your honors, I would like to request that the proceedings for the trial be put on hold.

As you may know, Govindia has been banned from the forum and he no longer has access to this forum. He is still technically a citizen, because by law the Delegate is not to be instructed to carry out the sentencing until the proceedings of the trial and the rationale behind the verdicts and sentencing. Because the trial has yet to conclude, but Govindia is unable to be here to represent himself, is why I ask the trial be put on hold until things are sorted out.

If Govindia cannot be here for the entire trial, how can it be considered a fair one?

[PoD Gunner]

Your Honors,

we appreciate your verdict as fair and just. On the other hand I believe that the defense counsel suffers from a slight mis-perception: once a verdict is given we would think that the trial procedures are over. The defense may appeal the verdict, we doubt however that there is anything left that can be put on hold. Making the reasoning and the private documents public is but a secondary procedure that has no bearing over the outcome. We consider that since the defendant's right to Taijituan citizenship has been removed by this Court, the fact that the administration of this forum has decided to ban his access to the forums based upon clear ToS violations (of which the Court has been made aware and provided with clear evidence), is nothing more than an objective administrative action.
Members who violate the ToS may be banned at whatever time and for however long, irrelevant of them being citizens or not. The fact that the administration has put any actions on-hold until the verdict was published, just shows the consideration that the administration has shown to this Court and its capacity to clear up the matter. A ToS violation is a matter upon which an administration may act in an independent manner, as it is an individual contract between the administration and the individual from which derive both rights and obligations for both sides. The fact that Govindia is no longer a citizen means only that he is not entitled to a trial over this matter.

 We ask Your Honors that you take the time and set things straight in full public view, the continued hustle performed against the administrators of this forums will have no other effect than that of making matters worse. If every time an administrator makes a decision and fulfills his duties, somebody is going to cry out "administration abuse!", you should consider if Taijitu would have any life at all without these lately so-ill-called administrators. If we are willing to allow outsiders speculate the loops in our system and shake the foundations of our community, we will have proved ourselves to be weaklings and to have ignored the well-being of our very own NS home.

[Osamafune]

There is a perfectly good reason for those ips that don't include using a proxy, you know. I would like to think you would have presented more evidence than that, but you seem to have a history of making claims but not presenting anything to back it up.

GMT, may I ask what the administrators have done recently that HASN'T involved admin abuse? What have they been doing recently to keep Taijitu alive? I'm not talking about the ban either.