What is Taijitu?

[Khem]

That was an extremely well put together argument Funk. For once I'm easily able to see where GP is one side of our Taijitu. Don't worry about Oz attempting to dictate legal precedent via outdated info.

[Sovereign Dixie]

While your post contains a lot of feel-goody platitudes, I think it fails to understand the basis of the entire region as a whole.

I really don't understand why people feel the need to egg on this ludicrous anti-gameplay or even anti-NS vitriol over the past several months.

Sometimes a little bit of optimism is a good thing. Also, nothing that I said was anti-NS or vitriolic.

With all due respect, Sovereign Dixie

...That always comes right before someone comes disrespectful....

you disappeared well over a year ago and hadn't been back since yesterday.

Yep. RL happens. Sorry it inconvenienced you.

I don't think you truly understand the struggles that the Taijitu community has been going through lately. "Community first, NS Gameplay second" truly does not make any sense. This entire regional culture and the in game region and all of its structures and offshoots are part of one Taijitu. You can't pretend that they are two entirely separate universes, because they are both integral aspects of the one Taijitu experience. In fact, how would NS Gameplay, from a Taijitu perspective, exist at all without Taijitu existing?

As far as me understanding the issues which the region is currently dealing with... Well, your entire post basically confirms that I do. A shrinking nation count, a lack of activity, conflicting opinions within the region regarding its stance (if any) on inter-regional affairs. Yeah, sounds about normal to me.

To categorise priorities is not a failing to adress the regions issues from a hollistic standpoint. Just like any political entity Taijitu needs to emphasize its strengths while working to overcome its weaknesses.

 

The proposition is just silliness.

If you views carry their own merit you should not have to assign terms such as "silliness" to opinions with which you disagree.

I have not been posting for the past two to four months now, on purpose, to protest the growing sentiment that the 'fossils' are not necessary for Taijitu to function, well let's see about that.

Ah, so you disappeared to, eh?  Besides, the thing about fossils is one sentiment you've expressed that I can agree upon. But I'm far deeper in the strata than you are, for better or worse. *shrugs*

Taijitu has fallen from 500 nations to 337 between August 15th and November 7th.
Taijitu has fallen from 984 posts in August, gradually to nearly half that in October, 557.
Taijitu has fallen from 33 new member in August to just 3 in October.

The more things change, the more they stay the same. When interest falls, so do the numbers.

But no one batted an eyelash. Members like myself and Myroria and Dyr have tried to help and we were met with an attitude like our contributions were not important because we were some old crones who were overbearing or too mired in our own thoughts or something like that.

Yeah. I've been there and done that.

There have been a lot of times in the past six months that Taijitu has had the opportunity to stand out and has simply failed to. Even now, there are discussions about another NS World Fair and no one from Taijitu has offered to submit for a venue or discuss the possibility of Taijitu hosting the World Fair. I get the sense that everything's fallen to a shambles, and now we've elected a Delegate who has expressly told us he's simply going to ignore the laws that we fought so hard to overhaul and re-establish over the past year and a sergeant with no knowledge of how NS military works, and a willingness to raid which will most definitely get Taijitu banned and excluded from defender channels, and at the very least lose a trust that has been built up over years with defenders.

So here's what it seems to come down to. You don't like the methods of the elected delegate, and the views of the military contradict your own ideology. Well, shit happens. What it seems more like here is that you have an interest in keeping the region active on the inter-regional scene, and more importantly, falling in lock step with the organisations that you agree with.

I know that at least 75% of you were not around when I had to carry the region on my back to help get it where it is today.

Your humility is an inspiration to us all.

[Of The US]

the only real answer here is "What is Taijitu?" "Baby don't hurt me"

[Prydania]

That was an extremely well put together argument Funk.

Eh...not quite. Here's the main problem...

...and now we've elected a Delegate who has expressly told us he's simply going to ignore the laws that we fought so hard to overhaul and re-establish over the past year and a sergeant with no knowledge of how NS military works...

It is an impressive feat to both celebrate laws that establish a democratic process while also bemoaning the process itself in the same sentiment.
You're a good guy Funk, I like you a lot. I say that because I don't want this to come off any more harsh then is necessary.
It sounds like you're simply unhappy with who won a round of elections. Tough. You want democracy? Sometimes the people you don't like win.

Look, we've all put something into this region. We've all had a say in how its been run in the past. Taijitu isn't mine. It isn't Oz's. Or SD's. Or Myro's. Or OT's. Or Gulliver's. Or Elu's. Or yours. Or anyone else's. I know this will sound cliched, but it truly belongs to everyone whose ever stayed up late, writing a RP post or piece of regional legislation. It belongs to anyone who ever spent hours BSing with friends made here on IRC or Yahoo IM or AIM or MSN or Skype. It belongs to anyone who ever spent hours conducting a successful defensive campaign. Or, yes, anyone who ever had to wade through PMs and IRC logs to try and navigate an outburst of regional drama.

My point, Funk, is that your vision of Taijitu is not THE vision for Taijitu. No one's is. Everyone whose ever given to this region has a legitimate vision for it. And I suppose that's why we have a democracy. And Oz is the delegate. Again, I'm sorry if he's not who you wanted in that position, but it is what it is.

For all your talk about how certain people vanish (while admitting you've done the same) the fact is we keep coming back. If not for a love for the region we all had a hand in creating, if not to spend time with our friends we made because of it, then why?

 

[Funkadelia]

I'm not going to muddy this entire thread over and respond line by line in kind, but you've (Sovereign Dixie) totally (unsurprisingly) misrepresented the point of my post.

I don't care if you're here or not, the difference to me is that you've just come back and are speaking from a position of authority on issues that you haven't had to confront yet in the current context.

The waffling about the pointless declaration that 'Taijitu should come first and not GP' still doesn't make any sense. "Nationstates gameplay" which, by definition, is participation in Taijitu, is Taijitu, so there's no way you can separate that. The point doesn't stand.

You totally misrepresented my entire post and instead made a glancing effort at simplifying my argument to something rudimentary. It does not "come down to" the fact that I "disagree with the methods" of the citizen delegate and the citizen sergeant. I do, of course, but I also meant that it is indicative of how we've fallen that that sort of activity is allowed to stand by the community, and also that the abandonment of perfectly functioning law because of one individual's disdain for it is destructive to the very ideals of the Revolution that we all hold dear as a core tenet to Taijitu.

I doubt you could name one "organization" that I agree with, much less explain why I would try to influence Taijitu in that manner. I am advocating following principles that we have held high as a region since the founding of the Revolutionary government, especially that of defending those who cannot defend themselves, which if you don't know (which I will excuse you if you don't, you've never experienced this government after all) has been something we have done for over a year. Your implied disdain for "keeping  the region active on the inter-regional scene" is a bit funny especially since that's an important part of keeping any UCR relevant for any extended period of time.

And yes, I'm not shy to tell you that I had to pull the region behind me a few years ago when no one else would. I'm proud of it, and I'm not going to let it all go to waste now because some people don't like the "fossils." I doubt you'll find many people who would disagree with the assessment.

[Sovereign Dixie]

I'm not going to muddy this entire thread over and respond line by line in kind, but you've (Sovereign Dixie) totally (unsurprisingly) misrepresented the point of my post.

I don't care if you're here or not, the difference to me is that you've just come back and are speaking from a position of authority on issues that you haven't had to confront yet in the current context.

The waffling about the pointless declaration that 'Taijitu should come first and not GP' still doesn't make any sense. "Nationstates gameplay" which, by definition, is participation in Taijitu, is Taijitu, so there's no way you can separate that. The point doesn't stand.

You totally misrepresented my entire post and instead made a glancing effort at simplifying my argument to something rudimentary. It does not "come down to" the fact that I "disagree with the methods" of the citizen delegate and the citizen sergeant. I do, of course, but I also meant that it is indicative of how we've fallen that that sort of activity is allowed to stand by the community, and also that the abandonment of perfectly functioning law because of one individual's disdain for it is destructive to the very ideals of the Revolution that we all hold dear as a core tenet to Taijitu.

I doubt you could name one "organization" that I agree with, much less explain why I would try to influence Taijitu in that manner. I am advocating following principles that we have held high as a region since the founding of the Revolutionary government, especially that of defending those who cannot defend themselves, which if you don't know (which I will excuse you if you don't, you've never experienced this government after all) has been something we have done for over a year. Your implied disdain for "keeping  the region active on the inter-regional scene" is a bit funny especially since that's an important part of keeping any UCR relevant for any extended period of time.

And yes, I'm not shy to tell you that I had to pull the region behind me a few years ago when no one else would. I'm proud of it, and I'm not going to let it all go to waste now because some people don't like the "fossils." I doubt you'll find many people who would disagree with the assessment.

Ok. We'll ditch the line by line.

I never proclaimed to have any kind of authority. I was -participating- and then you come in with this patronizing tone that frankly was uninvited by anything that I said. And also, I never, once, expressed "disdain" for game play. I merely said that the community itself should be top priority. that was it.

Now. If you want to continue this discussion, I'll be on IRC.

[Prydania]

I'm not going to muddy this entire thread over and respond line by line in kind, but you've (Sovereign Dixie) totally (unsurprisingly) misrepresented the point of my post.

Perhaps try to be civil.

I don't care if you're here or not, the difference to me is that you've just come back and are speaking from a position of authority on issues that you haven't had to confront yet in the current context.

I've been playing NS since I was in high school. I now teach high school. I've been running with the same group of guys since then too. First in Lex and then here. The problems that seem to face Taijitu today have always been the problems facing Taijitu. Or any other number of regions, to be perfectly honest.

The waffling about the pointless declaration that 'Taijitu should come first and not GP' still doesn't make any sense. "Nationstates gameplay" which, by definition, is participation in Taijitu, is Taijitu, so there's no way you can separate that. The point doesn't stand.

I disagree. RP. Just chatting with friends about life or movies or politics. Or whatever. Be it on the forums or through some IM system.
There are plenty of ways to participate in Taijitu without indulging in NS gameplay.
And I'm not even saying NS gameplay is bad. Or that we shouldn't do it. I'm saying that NS gameplay isn't the reason why all of us joined NS. Or Taijitu for that matter. YOUR way to play the game isn't EVERYONE'S way to play the game.
And yes, I was having this exact same conversation when I was back in high school too.

You totally misrepresented my entire post and instead made a glancing effort at simplifying my argument to something rudimentary. It does not "come down to" the fact that I "disagree with the methods" of the citizen delegate and the citizen sergeant. I do, of course, but I also meant that it is indicative of how we've fallen that that sort of activity is allowed to stand by the community, and also that the abandonment of perfectly functioning law because of one individual's disdain for it is destructive to the very ideals of the Revolution that we all hold dear as a core tenet to Taijitu.

Someone you don't like won an election. Welcome to my world for the past month or so.
That's the thing about democracy Funk. Sometimes the guy you don't want to win wins.

I doubt you could name one "organization" that I agree with, much less explain why I would try to influence Taijitu in that manner. I am advocating following principles that we have held high as a region since the founding of the Revolutionary government...

Isn't one of, if not the, key principals of the revolutionary government respect for the democratic process? Oz won. He's Delegate.

And yes, I'm not shy to tell you that I had to pull the region behind me a few years ago when no one else would. I'm proud of it, and I'm not going to let it all go to waste now because some people don't like the "fossils." I doubt you'll find many people who would disagree with the assessment.

You keep using the term fossils. You don't get any more fossilized then SD 

[Myroria]

I think if we would just like to be practical for a minute we should admit that ignoring a part of the game a lot of people find a lot of fun is going to alienate those people and drive activity down more. I would also just like to say that I have felt unwelcome here due to my activity in other regions, namely The North Pacific, and no matter how many times someone says they welcome everyone that's not going to change without actions to back it up.

No one owes Taijitu anything if it's a shitty community to be in and actively encouraging people into GP to stop talking about an aspect of this game they enjoy makes it a shitty community to be in for people who are into that. I would love to come to Taijitu for RP... if anyone RPed. I would love to come to Taijitu for the social community... if anyone socialized.

[Prydania]

I would love to come to Taijitu for RP... if anyone RPed. I would love to come to Taijitu for the social community... if anyone socialized.

Yo

As for NS gameplay? I never said it was bad. Just that it's not why I'm here. Or a few others. As far as alienation goes? Funk's whole "you can't participate in Taijitu without engaging in NS gameplay" sentiment is alienating. From my point of view.

[Prydania]

I would love to come to Taijitu for RP... if anyone RPed. I would love to come to Taijitu for the social community... if anyone socialized.

Yo

As for NS gameplay? I never said it was bad. Just that it's not why I'm here. Or a few others. As far as alienation goes? Funk's whole "you can't participate in Taijitu without engaging in NS gameplay" sentiment is alienating. From my point of view.

Another thing. I have a pretty positive opinion of everyone I know here. Myro, Funk, Oz, Delfos, Khem, SD, Dyr, Elu...the whole lot. So it's been kind of interesting to discover a change in sentiment over the last 24-48 hours.
Mostly? I'm just saying I really don't care for high school-level games of "he said/she said." I'd rather people just come out with what's on their minds rather then trying to hide behind phrases like "with all due respect."

[Khem]

I think if we would just like to be practical for a minute we should admit that ignoring a part of the game a lot of people find a lot of fun is going to alienate those people and drive activity down more. I would also just like to say that I have felt unwelcome here due to my activity in other regions, namely The North Pacific, and no matter how many times someone says they welcome everyone that's not going to change without actions to back it up.

No one owes Taijitu anything if it's a shitty community to be in and actively encouraging people into GP to stop talking about an aspect of this game they enjoy makes it a shitty community to be in for people who are into that. I would love to come to Taijitu for RP... if anyone RPed. I would love to come to Taijitu for the social community... if anyone socialized.

I apologize if at any point my railing against NSGP was alienating for yourself or anyone else, I truly wish for the inclusive rhetoric to become our actual paradigm of cosmopolitan democratic awesome. However part of such an inclusive and cosmopolitan populace is the inclusion of abrasive personalities and ideologies within our fold which might very well undermine said paradigm. /me rambles a bit more.

[Prydania]

However part of such an inclusive and cosmopolitan populace is the inclusion of abrasive personalities and ideologies within our fold which might very well undermine said paradigm. /me rambles a bit more.

This is what I mean

Another thing. I have a pretty positive opinion of everyone I know here. Myro, Funk, Oz, Delfos, Khem, SD, Dyr, Elu...the whole lot. So it's been kind of interesting to discover a change in sentiment over the last 24-48 hours.
Mostly? I'm just saying I really don't care for high school-level games of "he said/she said." I'd rather people just come out with what's on their minds rather then trying to hide behind phrases like "with all due respect."

[Sovereign Dixie]

I think if we would just like to be practical for a minute we should admit that ignoring a part of the game a lot of people find a lot of fun is going to alienate those people and drive activity down more. I would also just like to say that I have felt unwelcome here due to my activity in other regions, namely The North Pacific, and no matter how many times someone says they welcome everyone that's not going to change without actions to back it up.

No one owes Taijitu anything if it's a shitty community to be in and actively encouraging people into GP to stop talking about an aspect of this game they enjoy makes it a shitty community to be in for people who are into that. I would love to come to Taijitu for RP... if anyone RPed. I would love to come to Taijitu for the social community... if anyone socialized.

And I agree with ya, Myro. No one should be made to feel unwelcome because they want to do (insert legal activity here). And to be clear, I am -for- gameplay. But at the same time I've often seen governments get so wrapped up in it that they fail to give a shit about their actual forum communities. And that leads to nothing but trouble.

[Gulliver]

Taijitu has fallen from 500 nations to 337 between August 15th and November 7th.

That's mainly because I stopped buying stamps when I started school so that one at least is on me >_>

[Dyr Nasad]

Taijitu has fallen from 500 nations to 337 between August 15th and November 7th.

That's mainly because I stopped buying stamps when I started school so that one at least is on me >_>

You arent allowed to take all the blame for things like that