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Author Topic: Reform Proposals and Discussion  (Read 2302 times)

Offline Prydania

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Re: Reform Proposals and Discussion
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2015, 12:39:48 AM »
This sounds like what we already have, albeit it with less offices, a poly-personal executive with appointed sub-officers. Were there any other key differences you had in mind?
So it's the same, save for all the ways it's different? :P

Ultimately I think a balance needs to be struck between a symbolic executive and an all-powerful dictator.
The system I'm proposing would elevate the three executives above "figurehead" or "caretaker" status, but would spread the power out over three people rather than a single person. 

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Quote from: Prydania
It's in that spirit that I propose one last thing. A return to the original Taijitu Senate model.
I prefer the current model. It's simple and too the point. Reintroducing interviews seems like just an additional barrier that's makework.

If I remember correctly, the old model basically accepted all who applied anyway.  The current system, skips that step.
What you call makework I call a gameplay feature. Players (ie citizens) need to feel a sense of progression should they opt to engage in regional politics. The application method allowed for that sense of progression.

Which is the problem with a system that's "too [sic] the point." You arrive in Taijitu and apply for citizenship. Congratulations. You're in the legislature. It's akin to buying World of Warcraft, logging in as soon as it's installed, and getting a max level character with raid-tier gear. Where's the sense of progress? What is there to work for?

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I would strongly prefer that we retain the name "Ecclesia". It is a unique, distinctly Taijituan name, whereas there are about 500 other senates floating around NationStates.
I have no preference on names. Ecclesia, Senate, Congress, Parliament, Conclave...I'm fine with anything. I'm just using the term "Senate" because it's the first Tai Senate system that I'm advocating for.

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I think a simpler solution would be to just not dissolve the Ecclesia, even if it's reformed, so that the old membership just automatically carries over.
What proposals for Ecclesia reform would you suggest?
It just seems like you're saying "thanks for your ideas, but could we just not change anything?" I'm not saying my ideas are the be-all-end-all, but some back and forth would be appreciated. Rather than appeals to the status quo.

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Quote from: Prydania
On the courts...I think having a separate court system is too layered, especially for a region of our size. I would propose that the legislator serve as "supreme court" should the need arise.
I don't think we need a formal criminal court just yet, but some mechanism for interpreting the law and constitution will probably be useful.
I'm in favour of empowering the legislature to act as the region's court. Perhaps the legislature could elect a "chief justice" from among their ranks if a trial is necessary?
« Last Edit: December 05, 2015, 12:45:58 AM by Prydania »

Offline Gulliver

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Re: Reform Proposals and Discussion
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2015, 05:44:11 AM »
Quote from: Prydania
What proposals for Ecclesia reform would you suggest?
It just seems like you're saying "thanks for your ideas, but could we just not change anything?" I'm not saying my ideas are the be-all-end-all, but some back and forth would be appreciated. Rather than appeals to the status quo.
Personally, I'm fine with it the way it is. What I meant to say is that if others would like there to be changes, it would be better to accomplish those changes by modifying the current body instead of dissolving it and making a new one. In particular, you seem to want to readopt the old Taijituan Senate model of legislature involvement not being automatic. Since that's a point that there's been several ideas on I think I'll start a poll to get a concrete measure.

I've got only one week of school left, so it's crunch time and I'm not 100% there, but the one comment I can make on the constitution outline put forward is that for the electoral system we may as well keep using the current two round system we have now, it's been working well enough.

Offline Khem

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Re: Reform Proposals and Discussion
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2015, 03:14:15 PM »
Here is my list of laws that I ultimately want to see altered.
Quote from: Khems Chopping Block
Advisory Council Act
Citizen-Initiator Act
Citizen-Liaison Act
Delegacy Act
Ecclesia Procedure Act
Judiciary Act
Militia Act

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Offline Gulliver

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Re: Reform Proposals and Discussion
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2015, 04:50:40 AM »
I've gone ahead and drafted a possible Constitution:

Quote from: Constitution Draft
1. Citizenship
1. Any person who possesses a nation in the region of Taijitu may apply for citizenship.
2. The content of applications for citizenship will be established by law.
3. Citizenship may only be revoked if a citizen's nation ceases to be in Taijitu, as punishment for a crime, or if a citizen renounces it willingly.
4. The Citizen-Initiator will evaluate and accept or reject all applications for citizenship.
5. If the Citizen-Initiator rejects an application for citizenship, the Ecclesia may approve it by a majority vote.

2. Bill of Rights
1. All citizens are guaranteed equal protection under the law.
2. No citizen may be deprived of access the Regional Forums necessary to exercise their other rights.
3. No citizen may be subjected to inquiry into their private affairs absent reasonable suspicion of wrongdoing.
4. No citizen may be charged for an act that was not a crime at the time it was committed.
5. No citizen may be found guilty of a crime by decree or legislation.
6. No citizen charged with a crime may be kept ignorant of the charges against them
7. No citizen charged with a crime may be deprived of a swift, fair and public trial.
8. No citizen may be deprived of representation at a trial.
9. No citizen may be compelled to bear witness against themselves.
10. All citizens are guaranteed the freedom conscience, expression and assocation.
11. All citizens are guaranteed the right to participate in any election.
12. All citizens are guaranteed the right to run for and hold public office.
13. No citizen may be ejected from Taijitu or limited in their access to the Regional Forums absent criminal charges.
14. No person will be considered necessarily deprived of any right not enumerated here.

3. The Ecclesia
1. The Ecclesia will consist of all citizens of Taijitu.
2. The Ecclesia may adopt, amend or repeal laws by a majority vote.
3. The Ecclesia may remove any government official by a majority vote.
4. The Ecclesia may amend this consitution by two two-thirds majority votes held no less than a week apart.
5. The Ecclesia may regulate foreign, domestic and military policy by law.
6. The Citizen-Initiator will conduct the business of the Ecclesia and maintain records of the law.
7. The Citizen-Initiator may appoint and dismiss any number of citizens as deputies to assist them in their duties.

4. The Directorate
1. The Directorate will be composed of the Citizen-Delegate, the Citizen-Steward and the Citizen-Sergeant.
2. The Citizen-Delegate will serve as head of state and conduct foreign policy.
3. The Citizen-Steward will serve as head of government and conduct domestic policy.
4. The Citizen-Seargant will serve as commander in chief of the armed forces and conduct military policy.
5. Members of the Directorate may appoint and dismiss any number of citizens as deputies to assist them in their duties.
6. Members of the Directorate may style the titles of their deputies as appropriate.

5. Elections
1. The offices of Citizen-Delegate, Citizen-Steward, Citizen-Seargent and Citizen-Initiator will be considered elected offices.
2. An election for an elected office will be held if three months have passed since the last election for the office, the Ecclesia chooses to hold an election for the office by majority vote or the office is vacant.
3. Elections will be held using the two-round system with a majority threshold.
4. Ties during elections will be broken in favor of the candidate who declared their candidacy first.

I agree that a number of laws will also have to be altered inline with any constitution.

Offline Khem

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Re: Reform Proposals and Discussion
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2015, 01:36:48 PM »
Yay Gulliver! I love it with the first read through. Though 5.4 is an odd way to break a tie. It is very heartening to see the effort you have put into this :) Hoping I can get some good time today to work up specific alterations needed to other laws.

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Offline AwesomeSaucer

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Re: Reform Proposals and Discussion
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2015, 04:21:54 PM »
I've gone ahead and drafted a possible Constitution:

Quote from: Constitution Draft
1. Citizenship
1. Any person who possesses a nation in the region of Taijitu may apply for citizenship.
2. The content of applications for citizenship will be established by law.
3. Citizenship may only be revoked if a citizen's nation ceases to be in Taijitu, as punishment for a crime, or if a citizen renounces it willingly.
4. The Citizen-Initiator will evaluate and accept or reject all applications for citizenship.
5. If the Citizen-Initiator rejects an application for citizenship, the Ecclesia may approve it by a majority vote.

2. Bill of Rights
1. All citizens are guaranteed equal protection under the law.
2. No citizen may be deprived of access the Regional Forums necessary to exercise their other rights.
3. No citizen may be subjected to inquiry into their private affairs absent reasonable suspicion of wrongdoing.
4. No citizen may be charged for an act that was not a crime at the time it was committed.
5. No citizen may be found guilty of a crime by decree or legislation.
6. No citizen charged with a crime may be kept ignorant of the charges against them
7. No citizen charged with a crime may be deprived of a swift, fair and public trial.
8. No citizen may be deprived of representation at a trial.
9. No citizen may be compelled to bear witness against themselves.
10. All citizens are guaranteed the freedom conscience, expression and assocation.
11. All citizens are guaranteed the right to participate in any election.
12. All citizens are guaranteed the right to run for and hold public office.
13. No citizen may be ejected from Taijitu or limited in their access to the Regional Forums absent criminal charges.
14. No person will be considered necessarily deprived of any right not enumerated here.

3. The Ecclesia
1. The Ecclesia will consist of all citizens of Taijitu.
2. The Ecclesia may adopt, amend or repeal laws by a majority vote.
3. The Ecclesia may remove any government official by a majority vote.
4. The Ecclesia may amend this consitution by two two-thirds majority votes held no less than a week apart.
5. The Ecclesia may regulate foreign, domestic and military policy by law.
6. The Citizen-Initiator will conduct the business of the Ecclesia and maintain records of the law.
7. The Citizen-Initiator may appoint and dismiss any number of citizens as deputies to assist them in their duties.

4. The Directorate
1. The Directorate will be composed of the Citizen-Delegate, the Citizen-Steward and the Citizen-Sergeant.
2. The Citizen-Delegate will serve as head of state and conduct foreign policy.
3. The Citizen-Steward will serve as head of government and conduct domestic policy.
4. The Citizen-Seargant will serve as commander in chief of the armed forces and conduct military policy.
5. Members of the Directorate may appoint and dismiss any number of citizens as deputies to assist them in their duties.
6. Members of the Directorate may style the titles of their deputies as appropriate.

5. Elections
1. The offices of Citizen-Delegate, Citizen-Steward, Citizen-Seargent and Citizen-Initiator will be considered elected offices.
2. An election for an elected office will be held if three months have passed since the last election for the office, the Ecclesia chooses to hold an election for the office by majority vote or the office is vacant.
3. Elections will be held using the two-round system with a majority threshold.
4. Ties during elections will be broken in favor of the candidate who declared their candidacy first.

I agree that a number of laws will also have to be altered inline with any constitution.
This seems quite similar to what we have.  What are the major differences?
--
Sincerely,

Former Citizen-Liaison of Taijitu,

Evan C.


Offline Gulliver

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Re: Reform Proposals and Discussion
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2015, 09:32:23 PM »
Quote from: Khem
Yay Gulliver! I love it with the first read through. Though 5.4 is an odd way to break a tie. It is very heartening to see the effort you have put into this :) Hoping I can get some good time today to work up specific alterations needed to other laws.
An alternative would be seniority of citizenship.

Offline Dyr Nasad

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Re: Reform Proposals and Discussion
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2015, 11:31:19 PM »
Quote from: Khem
Yay Gulliver! I love it with the first read through. Though 5.4 is an odd way to break a tie. It is very heartening to see the effort you have put into this :) Hoping I can get some good time today to work up specific alterations needed to other laws.
An alternative would be seniority of citizenship.
:o the oligarchy

I should have actual comments at some point, but until then let's standardize the spelling of sergeant please :P

Offline Khem

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Re: Reform Proposals and Discussion
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2015, 11:33:01 PM »
Quote from: Khem
Yay Gulliver! I love it with the first read through. Though 5.4 is an odd way to break a tie. It is very heartening to see the effort you have put into this :) Hoping I can get some good time today to work up specific alterations needed to other laws.
An alternative would be seniority of citizenship.
Though inclined for reasons of favoring the self I believe an alternative of an IRV would be more fair.
:o the oligarchy

I should have actual comments at some point, but until then let's standardize the spelling of sergeant please :P
Sir gent? Who's that? :P

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Offline Gulliver

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Re: Reform Proposals and Discussion
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2015, 06:00:53 PM »
Quote from: Khem
Though inclined for reasons of favoring the self I believe an alternative of an IRV would be more fair.
I'm fine with IRV, but even then you'd still need a tie-breaking mechanism because people might be tied for lowest number of votes in a given round. Indeed, any electoral method will need a tie-breaking method of some kind.

Offline Khem

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Re: Reform Proposals and Discussion
« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2015, 07:18:28 PM »
Maybe give the C-I the power to break ties?

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Offline Delfos

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Re: Reform Proposals and Discussion
« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2015, 07:28:01 PM »
no

Offline Red Mones

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Re: Reform Proposals and Discussion
« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2015, 01:44:41 AM »

Offline Delfos

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Re: Reform Proposals and Discussion
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2015, 11:05:19 AM »
I think there are better methods, even running the election endlessly until we have a winner is better than C-I breaking tie, it might be very unlikely there will be ties at the end. And shove señor-ity up...the ventilation shaft.

How about:
X. In case of tie, break in favor of: The one that has never held office; The one that has not held any office immediately before the election; The one that has not held this office immediately before the election; or The one that has held any office the least times.

This way at least we guarantee a sort of rotation. I'd be more in favor of a proper rotation but introducing the notion of rotation in this bill will suffice for my legislative anger beast to shred all your damn conventions. Maybe people shouldn't be able to hold any office consecutively as well. CHAIR DANCE!

Offline Khem

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Re: Reform Proposals and Discussion
« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2015, 04:14:20 PM »
I think there are better methods, even running the election endlessly until we have a winner is better than C-I breaking tie, it might be very unlikely there will be ties at the end. And shove señor-ity up...the ventilation shaft.

How about:
X. In case of tie, break in favor of: The one that has never held office; The one that has not held any office immediately before the election; The one that has not held this office immediately before the election; or The one that has held any office the least times.

This way at least we guarantee a sort of rotation. I'd be more in favor of a proper rotation but introducing the notion of rotation in this bill will suffice for my legislative anger beast to shred all your damn conventions. Maybe people shouldn't be able to hold any office consecutively as well. CHAIR DANCE!
I like this means.

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