Taijitu
Government of Taijitu => The Ecclesia => Proposals and Discussion => Topic started by: AwesomeSaucer on September 22, 2015, 12:31:54 AM
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Taijitu has been comparatively inactive lately. I wanted to bring this up to see what you guys' opinions are, and perhaps to spark some new life permanently into Taijitu itself.
I think Taijitu needs to look at itself in the mirror since the Glorious Revolution and see what it's become. We need to compare our current ideals from what we intented to be one year ago. And after I studied the mirror, these are my findings. Taijitu needs to change.
Glorious Revolution 2.0? No, I don't think something to that scale is necessary, but I do think we need some major reforms here.
For one, we need to become much more direct of a democracy. Our current system pretty much involves 4 (or perhaps 5 or 6, depending on what you count) elected officials that in theory were strictly public servants signing and executing bills passed by the Ecclesia, but this is simply not how it's been working. Our officials are now almost the only legislators, and I know (from experience, mind you) that this can lead to some major misconceptions and errors. We really need to look at our principles of what it means to be a Taijituan democracy, and we need to act on them; because as of now, we have a system that almost begs of inactivity. I am a liberal (Taijituan liberal, not American liberal), and being so, I think we need to noticeably strengthen our Ecclesia, and weaken our executive branch to strictly executing laws. This doesn't mean that officers cannot propose bills, it just means that they cannot make them and enact them on their own.
Two, we simply need more members. Right now, we are a region that survives through life support, through irregular incidents such as the big NS Reddit jump about one month ago. We can no longer survive on this method, and I have a few ideas I'd like to spitball that may help.
One - social media presence. Perhaps this is non-explanatory, but we need to get ourselves out more. NS is a game that only a select niche play, a very time-consuming one at that. Allowing people to see us through other sources like Twitter, Google, Reddit, and YouTube gives us a self-sustaining support system of new citizens. YT is especially attractive to me as a videographer, and perhaps I could take care of that aspect.
Two - NS nationship is no longer required. Yea, I said it. I can already sense the conservatives (Taijituan conservatives) scoffing at this idea, but I think it makes sense. I think Taijitu has been heading down a path from a simple NS region to a social forum where people can hang out, chat, and interact in a simulated political environment. While NS will remain a niche game, a website that simulates a government for those who don't actually want to engage in their RL government will never be; there will always be politically curious people out there. And as such, we shouldn't require an active NS nation for citizenship. A simple request should do it. And remember, if we do want to make our social media presence bigger, we couldn't require people to join another game along with Taijitu.
We could get membership in the thousands if this goes correctly. We could have an always-active, online government system where people come in to discuss and vote on laws that actually affect them (in Taijitu only, of course). And perhaps other websites could spring up to simulate representative democracies, or oligarchies, or dictatorships, or any other style of government. But if this goes according to plan, we could create an entirely new category of simulation and gaming: online political simulation, where you can become a citizen of an online world, that acts almost independently of the real world. We could be big.
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i see hewere ur going..but taijitu is rly a core of the sme peiplez with sum ..uknowah...i think i shouldnt tyoe when druk an whino. gonna stop here mebbe comeback tmw
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I think whatever gets Taijitu working with new blood will be fine with me. I have commitments in TNP that will preclude me from active politics here. I'm here for the worldbuilding and social community at this point.
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Perhaps it's just late, but I'm a bit confused on the direct democracy point. Isn't the Ecclesia already direct? Any citizen can propose a law, the citizens vote on the law, a process over which no official has any particular discretion.
As for expansion, my recommendation is to focus on establishing a stable core of activity first, and to be ambitious later. One can also rely on central planning only so much - systems can encourage activity, but can stifle it if they are too overbearing or artificial. You can insert your favorite build-a-foundation or follow-your-dreams-but-not-off-a-cliff aphorism here. 'Virtual' government is a tool for organizing and protecting a community rather than an end in itself. I'll probably be more coherent about this later.
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Perhaps it's just late, but I'm a bit confused on the direct democracy point. Isn't the Ecclesia already direct? Any citizen can propose a law, the citizens vote on the law, a process over which no official has any particular discretion.
As for expansion, my recommendation is to focus on establishing a stable core of activity first, and to be ambitious later. One can also rely on central planning only so much - systems can encourage activity, but can stifle it if they are too overbearing or artificial. You can insert your favorite build-a-foundation or follow-your-dreams-but-not-off-a-cliff aphorism here. 'Virtual' government is a tool for organizing and protecting a community rather than an end in itself. I'll probably be more coherent about this later.
I'll talk to you later on IRC. This is really complex, and I don't think I can explain it well in a forum reply.
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Perhaps it's just late, but I'm a bit confused on the direct democracy point. Isn't the Ecclesia already direct? Any citizen can propose a law, the citizens vote on the law, a process over which no official has any particular discretion.
As for expansion, my recommendation is to focus on establishing a stable core of activity first, and to be ambitious later. One can also rely on central planning only so much - systems can encourage activity, but can stifle it if they are too overbearing or artificial. You can insert your favorite build-a-foundation or follow-your-dreams-but-not-off-a-cliff aphorism here. 'Virtual' government is a tool for organizing and protecting a community rather than an end in itself. I'll probably be more coherent about this later.
I'll talk to you later on IRC. This is really complex, and I don't think I can explain it well in a forum reply.
Both require using written words to communicate, so this makes ZERO sense.
Without knowing what you mean by everything you posted, I have no opinion on whether to support.
The one part I do understand - that we need more forms of communication - has been your wonder drug cure all since you got here. It is impossible to build up a base when you a have inumerable platforms. I feel left out on IRC stuff because it is not practical for me to use. People only on IRC miss out on forum stuff. It all equals disjointedness and disconnectedness. More makes it worse.
We have the forums, which seem to be the "official" Taijitu communication tool, especially since IRC logs are "not for sharing." Additional forms of communication - Skype, hangouts, whatever, are not solutions, they are tools.
Exactly what Wast is saying: stable core of activity FIRST, "ambitious" stuff later.
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Perhaps it's just late, but I'm a bit confused on the direct democracy point. Isn't the Ecclesia already direct? Any citizen can propose a law, the citizens vote on the law, a process over which no official has any particular discretion.
As for expansion, my recommendation is to focus on establishing a stable core of activity first, and to be ambitious later. One can also rely on central planning only so much - systems can encourage activity, but can stifle it if they are too overbearing or artificial. You can insert your favorite build-a-foundation or follow-your-dreams-but-not-off-a-cliff aphorism here. 'Virtual' government is a tool for organizing and protecting a community rather than an end in itself. I'll probably be more coherent about this later.
I'll talk to you later on IRC. This is really complex, and I don't think I can explain it well in a forum reply.
The one part I do understand - that we need more forms of communication - has been your wonder drug cure all since you got here. It is impossible to build up a base when you a have inumerable platforms. I feel left out on IRC stuff because it is not practical for me to use. People only on IRC miss out on forum stuff. It all equals disjointedness and disconnectedness. More makes it worse.
We have the forums, which seem to be the "official" Taijitu communication tool, especially since IRC logs are "not for sharing." Additional forms of communication - Skype, hangouts, whatever, are not solutions, they are tools.
Communication? No, I'm past that phase. Things like Skype and that forum redesign aren't what I'm looking for. However, I think we need more outreach, something much different than communication. Outreach involves the social media presence I was talking about.
The idea of beginning with basic change first seems reasonable, but it goes against what I thought this plan could do. I think that those types of changes should be brought on by the new members we get with our outreach. Y'know, democracy! :)
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Perhaps it's just late, but I'm a bit confused on the direct democracy point. Isn't the Ecclesia already direct? Any citizen can propose a law, the citizens vote on the law, a process over which no official has any particular discretion.
As for expansion, my recommendation is to focus on establishing a stable core of activity first, and to be ambitious later. One can also rely on central planning only so much - systems can encourage activity, but can stifle it if they are too overbearing or artificial. You can insert your favorite build-a-foundation or follow-your-dreams-but-not-off-a-cliff aphorism here. 'Virtual' government is a tool for organizing and protecting a community rather than an end in itself. I'll probably be more coherent about this later.
I'll talk to you later on IRC. This is really complex, and I don't think I can explain it well in a forum reply.
The one part I do understand - that we need more forms of communication - has been your wonder drug cure all since you got here. It is impossible to build up a base when you a have inumerable platforms. I feel left out on IRC stuff because it is not practical for me to use. People only on IRC miss out on forum stuff. It all equals disjointedness and disconnectedness. More makes it worse.
We have the forums, which seem to be the "official" Taijitu communication tool, especially since IRC logs are "not for sharing." Additional forms of communication - Skype, hangouts, whatever, are not solutions, they are tools.
Communication? No, I'm past that phase. Things like Skype and that forum redesign aren't what I'm looking for. However, I think we need more outreach, something much different than communication. Outreach involves the social media presence I was talking about.
The idea of beginning with basic change first seems reasonable, but it goes against what I thought this plan could do. I think that those types of changes should be brought on by the new members we get with our outreach. Y'know, democracy! :)
Ok, I am on board with that. Thought you were going down the same path. I'm in a training class all week and not paying attention, obviously - jotting down some ideas and stuff that I'll put together and post as things to hopefully start building on. You are right, I think, in seeking new ways to reach out.
I think the number one issue is to define what we WANT Taijitu to be. Something more specific than "a nationstates region," though I would not want to sever ties with NS.
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I am a liberal (Taijituan liberal, not American liberal), and being so, I think we need to noticeably strengthen our Ecclesia, and weaken our executive branch to strictly executing laws. This doesn't mean that officers cannot propose bills, it just means that they cannot make them and enact them on their own.
This is already not a thing that happens. No one in the executive has ever once made and enacted a law since the Glorious Revolution without openly involving the entire Ecclesia and following proper democratic procedures.
Also, why is it shocking that the people who actually bother to do shit are the ones who get elected over and over? We're not excluding anyone, in fact we actively encourage new Citizens to get involved and run for election. When you yourself came into the region we enthusiastically supported your run for Citizen-Liaison.
I can see your concerns about recycling officers as valid, certainly; it does encourage inactivity for those not involved. But why not just do something about it? Write a bill. It'll get discussed and go to vote just like anyone else's proposals would. Or run for an office and then follow up on your own ideas. No one is stopping you. I would be legitimately thrilled to see more newbs (or old members who've not gotten into it before) proposing legislation and getting into government positions! That would be excellent! Nothing about our current structure precludes that.
We've made things as open and directly democratic as possible. As Citizen-Delegate I literally have no power whatsoever that the rest of our Citizens lack. All I have is admin access on NS and we don't even change region page wording without voting on it first. Even diplomacy-wise I do nothing unsanctioned by the group.
I agree that we need to find more ways to engage new people and keep the region lively and fresh. I just don't think our governmental system is unfair or oligarchic as is.
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I need guidance on how we are not democratic.
We do recycle officers, and that is a bit of an issue, but not that much. Many of our officers are very much public servants - they put a lot of work into the positions and receive little in return. Particularly looking at Delegate and Initiator with that. They receive little/no extra authority/etc and end up doing a significant amount of administrative work.
Some officer positions require other knowledge. We end up recycling Diplomats and Sergeants because only a handful of people are qualified and others do not wish to put the work in to become qualified.
If we want to expand social media, go for it (If people find Taijitu/NS from FB instead of Wikipedia, that is cool). However, I do not want to see Taijitu separating from NS. If you're on these boards, you should be connected to the game in some way. No need to turn us into another random pit on the internet
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Some quick things:
OK, I over-exaggerated on the officer thing. I think, though, what really needs to be nerfed or removed is the Liaison position; it has too much power. Otherwise, your points are good. Delegate and Initiator have been doing their job very well.
And removing all ties with NS? Absolutely not. We will always be the best NationStates region in the world, and we will always stay that way. I'm just proposing that we remove the requirement of having a NS nation to be a citizen. That's all.
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What power(s) does the Citizen-Liaison have that you feel is too much? I'm genuinely curious. :)
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What power(s) does the Citizen-Liaison have that you feel is too much? I'm genuinely curious. :)
I think he/she should not be able to create social programs like Orri's proposed Citizen-Guide system or my proposed Skype chat without the Ecclesia's full involvement. He/she can run and propose those systems, but they still need to be approved by the Ecclesia, not something that just "comes along" with electing a CL.
I think the CL needs to be reworked as a "Citizen-Manager" who is in charge of Taijitu's social media accounts (dummy password transfer), Taijitu's YouTube channel, and Taijitu's community. He runs all social programs, but cannot enact any without the Ecclesia's permission.
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I think he/she should not be able to create social programs like Orri's proposed Citizen-Guide system or my proposed Skype chat without the Ecclesia's full involvement. He/she can run and propose those systems, but they still need to be approved by the Ecclesia, not something that just "comes along" with electing a CL.
I think the CL needs to be reworked as a "Citizen-Manager" who is in charge of Taijitu's social media accounts (dummy password transfer), Taijitu's YouTube channel, and Taijitu's community. He runs all social programs, but cannot enact any without the Ecclesia's permission.
This works.
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What power(s) does the Citizen-Liaison have that you feel is too much? I'm genuinely curious. :)
I think he/she should not be able to create social programs like Orri's proposed Citizen-Guide system or my proposed Skype chat without the Ecclesia's full involvement. He/she can run and propose those systems, but they still need to be approved by the Ecclesia, not something that just "comes along" with electing a CL.
I think the CL needs to be reworked as a "Citizen-Manager" who is in charge of Taijitu's social media accounts (dummy password transfer), Taijitu's YouTube channel, and Taijitu's community. He runs all social programs, but cannot enact any without the Ecclesia's permission.
Okay, I see your point. That makes sure The Ecclesia is at least involved in which directions the Cit-Liaison runs in. I'm not quite certain if I agree but you are definitely swaying my opinion. Will give it some thought!
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Thank you to the two comments above! :)
I think the best thing I can do right now is work on a "Citizen-Manager Act" or something of that nature. Thoughts on what you guys would like to see?
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I think we can agree that:
1) We need to encourage people to just run with their ideas instead of talking about things ad nauseum.
2) We need to maintain control via the Ecclesia.
The balance is the question. Because, counter to the above:
1) We don't want people to run wild with bad and potentially damaging ideas.
2) We don't want to have to run EVERYTHING by the Ecclesia before moving.
How do we define what citizens should just run with, yet protect Taijitu against really really bad ideas?
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I think we can agree that:
1) We need to encourage people to just run with their ideas instead of talking about things ad nauseum.
2) We need to maintain control via the Ecclesia.
The balance is the question. Because, counter to the above:
1) We don't want people to run wild with bad and potentially damaging ideas.
2) We don't want to have to run EVERYTHING by the Ecclesia before moving.
How do we define what citizens should just run with, yet protect Taijitu against really really bad ideas?
Interesting thought.
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What power(s) does the Citizen-Liaison have that you feel is too much? I'm genuinely curious. :)
I think he/she should not be able to create social programs like Orri's proposed Citizen-Guide system or my proposed Skype chat without the Ecclesia's full involvement. He/she can run and propose those systems, but they still need to be approved by the Ecclesia, not something that just "comes along" with electing a CL.
I think the CL needs to be reworked as a "Citizen-Manager" who is in charge of Taijitu's social media accounts (dummy password transfer), Taijitu's YouTube channel, and Taijitu's community. He runs all social programs, but cannot enact any without the Ecclesia's permission.
I tried to go to the Ecclesia with everything in the beginning with plans as Liaison (as the record will show), yet there was a stronger push for autonomy of the position which I ultimately agree with. I'm not surprised you don't share this view with a warped sense as to what responsibilities this position actually entails as written. Hell you seem intent on expanding the power of this relatively powerless position rather than your claim of wanting to limit officer power.
I don't disagree that we need to boost activity by expanding outreach but I do not see the current structure of the officers/ecclesia as hurting us in this regard. If you want to expand our outreach just start coming up with specific strategies of doing so and propose them to the ecclesia, otherwise you are just blaming others for our lack of build up rather than offering a genuine solution.
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2) We don't want to have to run EVERYTHING by the Ecclesia before moving.
I'm actually saying we should have to run everything by the Ecclesia. I don't see a reason not to, considering how small our community is. Hell, even if we do grow to a few thousand people, we can still run everything by the Ecclesia.
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So nothing would get done?
Our problem right now is not that people have insufficient say in matters. The issue is that no one is "doing things."
Also, all military and FA issues would implode if everything was voted on.
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Our problem right now is not that people have insufficient say in matters. The issue is that no one is "doing things."
Also, all military and FA issues would implode if everything was voted on.
Quite agreed!
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My suggestion would be to draft a Citizen-Manager Act and develop a basic plan for outreach. This can all be done within the bounds of the existing system. The government we have is good enough for now, and the best way to improve it in the short term is through more participation rather than structural change.
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oh crap, I said so much on the other topic that I should have said here.
I value this ad hoc spirit therefore I'd suggest subtle changes, transfer more work to voluntary Ecclesia people, let us decide to do things.
Ecclesia needs to reclaim power, re-design the "offices", we don't need half the bills that grant autonomy to work groups that don't work and aren't really autonomous, we need to decide ourselves what to do, let people be in the center of the discussion, planning and decisions, that way everyone feels they have participated.
I like the Citizen-Manager if it take up the most practical functions of C-L and C-I, whatever Ecclesia can do themselves we can all do our part then removing the C-I functions to the Ecclesia.
tbh I don't see why Ecclesia couldn't take up the whole of the decision making, how hard is to vote on stuff? Some things don't need to be endlessly discussed, yes, we should define those things and either the Citizen-Delegate or some sort of elected commission could then put up votes to whatever decision needs to be done without passing through a whole discussion about why what or how. But, What is the rush? We all like to have everything discussed by everyone, everyone having equal chance to discuss and vote, but it never happens, it will never happen, but because this can't be perfect you don't need to have someone with the power to make decisions, for instance for foreign policy, on the spot. There's no need, the whole game is sluggish already, why do you need to reply immediately? Lets all be sluggish and have a sluggish system where the most people can participate, or at least that everyone have the chance to participate.
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Our problem right now is not that people have insufficient say in matters. The issue is that no one is "doing things."
Yes, this is certainly a big issue; I understand. Hopefully, getting new fresh members should help this somewhat. :)
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Maybe some citizens should give less shits about other places and more shits about taijitu, and I'm not saying forget about your precious TNP (though I wish we could all just give it the collective middle finger already).
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Our problem right now is not that people have insufficient say in matters. The issue is that no one is "doing things."
Yes, this is certainly a big issue; I understand. Hopefully, getting new fresh members should help this somewhat. :)
Not directed at this post necessarily, but we really don't seem to have much trouble at all attracting new members. Look at the "Introductions" forum. Sometimes it's the most active forum!
So the problem really is how do we get these people to stay? And/or participate?
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I'm saying forget about your precious TNP
hear hear!
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Our problem right now is not that people have insufficient say in matters. The issue is that no one is "doing things."
Yes, this is certainly a big issue; I understand. Hopefully, getting new fresh members should help this somewhat. :)
Not directed at this post necessarily, but we really don't seem to have much trouble at all attracting new members. Look at the "Introductions" forum. Sometimes it's the most active forum!
So the problem really is how do we get these people to stay? And/or participate?
That's the main goal of that Citizen-Mentor program, but I haven't seen Orri in weeks.
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That's the main goal of that Citizen-Mentor program, but I haven't seen Orri in weeks.
It says in his profile he was last active yesterday at 5:18 p.m..
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Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. People come here, introduce themselves, then apparently don't find anything worth sticking around for. How do we get people to stick around? I don't know the answer.
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Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. People come here, introduce themselves, then apparently don't find anything worth sticking around for. How do we get people to stick around? I don't know the answer.
That has been an issue since age immemorial. It's the greatest mystery of Nationstates, and if someone has the answer, I would love to hear it.
I think the root activity is chatting up in IRC, and random discussion of matters of all stripes. There's no exact science to it all, but I think something we haven't tried is having frequent, fruitful discussions about various pieces of world news and perhaps discussion about things that happen in Nationstates. Granted, not much is happening in NS at the moment, but I feel that we all get more involved when we have open discussions about what's going on around the world. I feel like at the very basic root, that's what helps to strengthen a community. Other things are obviously important, and should also be built upon such as worldbuilding and regional politics and things like that.
What is not advisable is legislating for the sake of legislating. We tried that in 2014 in Lazarus and it did not work out very well. Also not advisable is a complete government change. What we have is different, and it's a good system. When I was delegate in 2012, I tried to change Taijitu's government system. It just didn't jive, and I got a ton of pushback from the community. What we have is something that gels, and I think we just need to work within its confines to make it something that we can all enjoy together. It is possible! I think also we need to continue on the recruiting streak we've been on for about a year now. We had a lot of success and enthusiasm for it before, and I think if we can spark that enthusiasm again, we can also make something out of this experience that is worthwhile. I know we have been recruiting nonstop for quite a while, but I think getting everyone enthusiastic about it, and enthusiastic about getting people to join the forum, and doing regional polls, and communicating with people in game (specifically via the RMB), will help a lot.
Not all is lost! We have been in far worse positions than this, and made it through fine. We just need to dust ourselves off a bit.
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Meme: push all the legislation in a certain direction, then says people shouldn't legislate away from that direction.
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We could get membership in the thousands if this goes correctly. We could have an always-active, online government system where people come in to discuss and vote on laws that actually affect them (in Taijitu only, of course). And perhaps other websites could spring up to simulate representative democracies, or oligarchies, or dictatorships, or any other style of government. But if this goes according to plan, we could create an entirely new category of simulation and gaming: online political simulation, where you can become a citizen of an online world, that acts almost independently of the real world. We could be big.
What is the point of being big? Why thousands of members? It is quality interaction that counts, not a sizable monument. Unfortunately I smell hybris here.
Taijitu is a NationStates region. It means all citizens have to be a NationStates member. End of.
If we let other people in on this forum as citizens, it means there is no point in being a member of NationStates.
Are we even going to be allowed in NationStates if we let other people in? If Taijitu becomes a separate game/forum, the management of this site will become so much more intense. Who will do that job? What rules then, are we going to enforce? How many nations can be squeesed in on the world map? How are we going to monitor new members? If they are not active on NS, what will the criteria be for participating? What if someone overnight signs up "thousands" of new members and with their help pushes through a comprehensive new legislation, and then these members disappear again? Et cetera, infinitum...
I say NO to any notion of opening Citizenship to anyone not in NationStates!
As for democracy, i think we are doing pretty well, though I do miss Cormac's messaging all citizens before a vote. If anyone have a definite proposition, just lay it before the Ecclesia, and we'll have a vote.
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also ingame telegramming, there's some members that only go to NS, but can come to our forum is you remind them with things they can participate. I did message all members through NS, I remember Miltonia used to participate on the votes when I'd message him, Achemenia or whatever it was used to participate on votes as well.
Delfos4speaker2016
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also ingame telegramming, there's some members that only go to NS, but can come to our forum is you remind them with things they can participate. I did message all members through NS, I remember Miltonia used to participate on the votes when I'd message him, Achemenia or whatever it was used to participate on votes as well.
Delfos4speaker2016
#ConstructiveIdeas, #LogicalExpansionOfDemocraticIdeology, #LOVINIT
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We should definitely start TGing the whole region on NS for votes again and maybe community events, too. Lovin' the ideas today, guys!
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I really think Orri's Guide system is the answer to many of your questions. We shall see how it works out in practice.
Otherwise, I think I can agree to disagree with Lindisfarn and Funk. That's OK.
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also ingame telegramming, there's some members that only go to NS, but can come to our forum is you remind them with things they can participate. I did message all members through NS, I remember Miltonia used to participate on the votes when I'd message him, Achemenia or whatever it was used to participate on votes as well.
Delfos4speaker2016
/me agrees with Delfos
O_____O
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also ingame telegramming, there's some members that only go to NS, but can come to our forum is you remind them with things they can participate. I did message all members through NS, I remember Miltonia used to participate on the votes when I'd message him, Achemenia or whatever it was used to participate on votes as well.
Delfos4speaker2016
:clap: :clap: :clap:
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Otherwise, I think I can agree to disagree with Lindisfarn and Funk. That's OK.
How?
If we've ought to be sharing ideas with each other, I want to know why my outlook is not agreeable.
I spent a lot of time thinking about to write that post, and I made sure to base it in relevant fact and experience. I'm not sure where that post would have gone wrong.
I'm coming up with the few practical things that we have not tried before, and "I can agree to disagree" does not help share ideas at all.
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Otherwise, I think I can agree to disagree with Lindisfarn and Funk. That's OK.
How?
If we've ought to be sharing ideas with each other, I want to know why my outlook is not agreeable.
I spent a lot of time thinking about to write that post, and I made sure to base it in relevant fact and experience. I'm not sure where that post would have gone wrong.
I'm coming up with the few practical things that we have not tried before, and "I can agree to disagree" does not help share ideas at all.
Truth. No one has told you to shut up, Awesomesaucer! Keep the conversation going.
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Otherwise, I think I can agree to disagree with Lindisfarn and Funk. That's OK.
How?
If we've ought to be sharing ideas with each other, I want to know why my outlook is not agreeable.
I spent a lot of time thinking about to write that post, and I made sure to base it in relevant fact and experience. I'm not sure where that post would have gone wrong.
I'm coming up with the few practical things that we have not tried before, and "I can agree to disagree" does not help share ideas at all.
Truth. No one has told you to shut up, Awesomesaucer! Keep the conversation going.
This is different. I know that in this situation, all conversation would dwindle to a halt, and eventually fall into argument.
Funk and I's differing opinions here are not on how to accomplish something, but simply ideological. From what I've heard, Funk (and Lindisfarne) simply believe Taijitu is a NS region, and should be nothing more, period. I, however, think that Taijitu could be a first example of an online democratic government, a concept that might spread further through more websites like this. I know I can't change opinions on things like that, so I won't try.
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Otherwise, I think I can agree to disagree with Lindisfarn and Funk. That's OK.
How?
If we've ought to be sharing ideas with each other, I want to know why my outlook is not agreeable.
I spent a lot of time thinking about to write that post, and I made sure to base it in relevant fact and experience. I'm not sure where that post would have gone wrong.
I'm coming up with the few practical things that we have not tried before, and "I can agree to disagree" does not help share ideas at all.
Truth. No one has told you to shut up, Awesomesaucer! Keep the conversation going.
This is different. I know that in this situation, all conversation would dwindle to a halt, and eventually fall into argument.
Funk and I's differing opinions here are not on how to accomplish something, but simply ideological. From what I've heard, Funk (and Lindisfarne) simply believe Taijitu is a NS region, and should be nothing more, period. I, however, think that Taijitu could be a first example of an online democratic government, a concept that might spread further through more websites like this. I know I can't change opinions on things like that, so I won't try.
K, I haven't seen where they have said that. Did I miss it?
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I fail to see what Taijitu could do as a "political simulation" that it cannot do now. NS is a political simulation - that's what we all came here for. We have a legislature that passes laws already. We already interact with places that are oligarchies or dictatorships - we closed embassies with The Pacific because of their attacks on another region.
The issue here isn't politics. Our social community is lackluster because no one talks about anything. Our RP is byzantine and complex and difficult for a beginner to get into. How do we fix that?
How does Spiritus have a social community vibrant and friendly and fun and we don't? How does TNP have an RP community filled with posts and we don't?
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Funk and I's differing opinions here are not on how to accomplish something, but simply ideological. From what I've heard, Funk (and Lindisfarne) simply believe Taijitu is a NS region, and should be nothing more, period. I, however, think that Taijitu could be a first example of an online democratic government, a concept that might spread further through more websites like this. I know I can't change opinions on things like that, so I won't try.
NO! I do not SIMPLY belive Taijitu is a NS Region and should be nothing more. In fact, I thing Taijitu is much more than simply a region. Byt we ARE in fact a Region of NS, and that is how we all came together in the first place.
Personally I'm not very keen on GP. Taijitu is were I have hung my hat, and I am doing the motions in NS because that is required, but that doesn't mean I think we can devorce ourselves from NS and bring in a lot of other people. (see previous post).
Now, since I am just a silly girl, I would like to ask AwesomeSaucer:
# What is the point of being BIG?
# What is the point of having "thousands of members"?
If you look at how many really active members we have and how many citoyens actually votes in the Ecclesia, I see the primary problem to activate those who are already here, never mind thousands of new members.
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The issue here isn't politics. Our social community is lackluster because no one talks about anything. Our RP is byzantine and complex and difficult for a beginner to get into. How do we fix that?
How does Spiritus have a social community vibrant and friendly and fun and we don't? How does TNP have an RP community filled with posts and we don't?
Excellent questions. I wonder at that as well. How do we keep things fun and interesting for new members and continually engage them so they want to stay, but also not lose our identity as a region with well-written albeit complex RP? What sort of topics should we start in General Discussion and the like to encourage friendly conversation?
If people show up and the only really active part of the forum is The Ecclesia, we will continue to lose the attention of members looking for a vibrant and varied community.
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Now, since I am just a silly girl, I would like to ask AwesomeSaucer:
# What is the point of being BIG?
# What is the point of having "thousands of members"?
You made a ton of good points, but this is an especially good question.
I don't think the goal is to be BIG for the sake of being BIG. Or at least it shouldn't be. Activity is what we want to increase, and it only follows that the more active members we have, the more activity will follow. How MANY people we want doesn't seem to me to be something we could easily calculate...
Of course, we - like any community - could get to be too big and lose the intimacy we have with a small group. If that happens - which is probably not likely - I think that would be a good problem to have, and easier to solve.
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OK, one last post before I embark on my political hiatus.
I get it. My visions are extremely long term, and perhaps unsustainable with our current resources.
For now, we need to focus on getting more people into the off-site forums, and more importantly, getting them to DO THINGS. This should be our focus for the meanwhile.
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I get it. My visions are extremely long term, and perhaps unsustainable with our current resources.
I thought that was the case - I don't think there's anything wrong with grandiose visions as long as they don't trump a near-term increase in activity. :)
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I thought that was the case - I don't think there's anything wrong with grandiose visions as long as they don't trump a near-term increase in activity. :)
Quite agreed! Big visions are extremely helpful! They help us think about and decide a real direction for the region to grow in rather than just dicking around with whatever issues come to mind.