Author Topic: A Master Proposal  (Read 2587 times)

Offline bigbaldben

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2015, 08:40:52 PM »
Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.  People come here, introduce themselves, then apparently don't find anything worth sticking around for.  How do we get people to stick around?  I don't know the answer.   

Offline Funkadelia

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #31 on: September 24, 2015, 01:24:41 AM »
Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.  People come here, introduce themselves, then apparently don't find anything worth sticking around for.  How do we get people to stick around?  I don't know the answer.
That has been an issue since age immemorial. It's the greatest mystery of Nationstates, and if someone has the answer, I would love to hear it.

I think the root activity is chatting up in IRC, and random discussion of matters of all stripes. There's no exact science to it all, but I think something we haven't tried is having frequent, fruitful discussions about various pieces of world news and perhaps discussion about things that happen in Nationstates. Granted, not much is happening in NS at the moment, but I feel that we all get more involved when we have open discussions about what's going on around the world. I feel like at the very basic root, that's what helps to strengthen a community. Other things are obviously important, and should also be built upon such as worldbuilding and regional politics and things like that.

What is not advisable is legislating for the sake of legislating. We tried that in 2014 in Lazarus and it did not work out very well. Also not advisable is a complete government change. What we have is different, and it's a good system. When I was delegate in 2012, I tried to change Taijitu's government system. It just didn't jive, and I got a ton of pushback from the community. What we have is something that gels, and I think we just need to work within its confines to make it something that we can all enjoy together. It is possible! I think also we need to continue on the recruiting streak we've been on for about a year now. We had a lot of success and enthusiasm for it before, and I think if we can spark that enthusiasm again, we can also make something out of this experience that is worthwhile. I know we have been recruiting nonstop for quite a while, but I think getting everyone enthusiastic about it, and enthusiastic about getting people to join the forum, and doing regional polls, and communicating with people in game (specifically via the RMB), will help a lot.

Not all is lost! We have been in far worse positions than this, and made it through fine. We just need to dust ourselves off a bit.
Today's date is: Today is Jocidi, 5 Cielidor AR 5 - Day 1770 of the Glorious Revolution.

Many trials make manifest
The stranger's fate, the curses' bane.
Many touchstones try the stranger
Many fall, but one remains.

Offline Delfos

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #32 on: September 24, 2015, 01:45:02 AM »
Meme: push all the legislation in a certain direction, then says people shouldn't legislate away from that direction.

Offline Lindisfarne

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #33 on: September 24, 2015, 12:38:58 PM »
We could get membership in the thousands if this goes correctly.  We could have an always-active, online government system where people come in to discuss and vote on laws that actually affect them (in Taijitu only, of course).  And perhaps other websites could spring up to simulate representative democracies, or oligarchies, or dictatorships, or any other style of government.  But if this goes according to plan, we could create an entirely new category of simulation and gaming: online political simulation, where you can become a citizen of an online world, that acts almost independently of the real world.  We could be big.

What is the point of being big? Why thousands of members? It is quality interaction that counts, not a sizable monument. Unfortunately I smell hybris here.

Taijitu is a NationStates region. It means all citizens have to be a NationStates member. End of.

If we let other people in on this forum as citizens, it means there is no point in being a member of NationStates.
Are we even going to be allowed in NationStates if we let other people in? If Taijitu becomes a separate game/forum, the management of this site will become so much more intense. Who will do that job? What rules then, are we going to enforce? How many nations can be squeesed in on the world map? How are we going to monitor new members? If they are not active on NS, what will the criteria be for participating? What if someone overnight signs up "thousands" of new members and with their help pushes through a comprehensive new legislation, and then these members disappear again? Et cetera, infinitum...

I say NO to any notion of opening Citizenship to anyone not in NationStates!

As for democracy, i think we are doing pretty well, though I do miss Cormac's messaging all citizens before a vote. If anyone have a definite proposition, just lay it before the Ecclesia, and we'll have a vote.
.

Offline Delfos

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #34 on: September 24, 2015, 04:25:32 PM »
also ingame telegramming, there's some members that only go to NS, but can come to our forum is you remind them with things they can participate. I did message all members through NS, I remember Miltonia used to participate on the votes when I'd message him, Achemenia or whatever it was used to participate on votes as well.

Delfos4speaker2016

Offline Khem

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #35 on: September 24, 2015, 04:52:42 PM »
also ingame telegramming, there's some members that only go to NS, but can come to our forum is you remind them with things they can participate. I did message all members through NS, I remember Miltonia used to participate on the votes when I'd message him, Achemenia or whatever it was used to participate on votes as well.

Delfos4speaker2016
#ConstructiveIdeas, #LogicalExpansionOfDemocraticIdeology, #LOVINIT

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Offline Allama

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #36 on: September 24, 2015, 04:59:30 PM »
We should definitely start TGing the whole region on NS for votes again and maybe community events, too. Lovin' the ideas today, guys!

Offline AwesomeSaucer

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2015, 07:50:59 PM »
I really think Orri's Guide system is the answer to many of your questions.  We shall see how it works out in practice.

Otherwise, I think I can agree to disagree with Lindisfarn and Funk.  That's OK.
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Offline Dyr Nasad

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #38 on: September 24, 2015, 08:45:24 PM »
also ingame telegramming, there's some members that only go to NS, but can come to our forum is you remind them with things they can participate. I did message all members through NS, I remember Miltonia used to participate on the votes when I'd message him, Achemenia or whatever it was used to participate on votes as well.

Delfos4speaker2016

* Dyr Nasad agrees with Delfos
O_____O

Offline AwesomeSaucer

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #39 on: September 24, 2015, 10:34:33 PM »
also ingame telegramming, there's some members that only go to NS, but can come to our forum is you remind them with things they can participate. I did message all members through NS, I remember Miltonia used to participate on the votes when I'd message him, Achemenia or whatever it was used to participate on votes as well.

Delfos4speaker2016
:clap: :clap: :clap:
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Offline Funkadelia

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #40 on: September 25, 2015, 02:24:48 AM »
Otherwise, I think I can agree to disagree with Lindisfarn and Funk.  That's OK.
How?

If we've ought to be sharing ideas with each other, I want to know why my outlook is not agreeable.

I spent a lot of time thinking about to write that post, and I made sure to base it in relevant fact and experience. I'm not sure where that post would have gone wrong.

I'm coming up with the few practical things that we have not tried before, and "I can agree to disagree" does not help share ideas at all.
Today's date is: Today is Jocidi, 5 Cielidor AR 5 - Day 1770 of the Glorious Revolution.

Many trials make manifest
The stranger's fate, the curses' bane.
Many touchstones try the stranger
Many fall, but one remains.

Offline bigbaldben

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #41 on: September 25, 2015, 08:11:10 PM »
Otherwise, I think I can agree to disagree with Lindisfarn and Funk.  That's OK.
How?

If we've ought to be sharing ideas with each other, I want to know why my outlook is not agreeable.

I spent a lot of time thinking about to write that post, and I made sure to base it in relevant fact and experience. I'm not sure where that post would have gone wrong.

I'm coming up with the few practical things that we have not tried before, and "I can agree to disagree" does not help share ideas at all.

Truth.  No one has told you to shut up, Awesomesaucer!  Keep the conversation going.

Offline AwesomeSaucer

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #42 on: September 25, 2015, 08:36:47 PM »
Otherwise, I think I can agree to disagree with Lindisfarn and Funk.  That's OK.
How?

If we've ought to be sharing ideas with each other, I want to know why my outlook is not agreeable.

I spent a lot of time thinking about to write that post, and I made sure to base it in relevant fact and experience. I'm not sure where that post would have gone wrong.

I'm coming up with the few practical things that we have not tried before, and "I can agree to disagree" does not help share ideas at all.

Truth.  No one has told you to shut up, Awesomesaucer!  Keep the conversation going.
This is different.  I know that in this situation, all conversation would dwindle to a halt, and eventually fall into argument.

Funk and I's differing opinions here are not on how to accomplish something, but simply ideological.  From what I've heard, Funk (and Lindisfarne) simply believe Taijitu is a NS region, and should be nothing more, period.  I, however, think that Taijitu could be a first example of an online democratic government, a concept that might spread further through more websites like this.  I know I can't change opinions on things like that, so I won't try.
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Sincerely,

Former Citizen-Liaison of Taijitu,

Evan C.


Offline bigbaldben

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #43 on: September 25, 2015, 09:33:21 PM »
Otherwise, I think I can agree to disagree with Lindisfarn and Funk.  That's OK.
How?

If we've ought to be sharing ideas with each other, I want to know why my outlook is not agreeable.

I spent a lot of time thinking about to write that post, and I made sure to base it in relevant fact and experience. I'm not sure where that post would have gone wrong.

I'm coming up with the few practical things that we have not tried before, and "I can agree to disagree" does not help share ideas at all.

Truth.  No one has told you to shut up, Awesomesaucer!  Keep the conversation going.
This is different.  I know that in this situation, all conversation would dwindle to a halt, and eventually fall into argument.

Funk and I's differing opinions here are not on how to accomplish something, but simply ideological.  From what I've heard, Funk (and Lindisfarne) simply believe Taijitu is a NS region, and should be nothing more, period.  I, however, think that Taijitu could be a first example of an online democratic government, a concept that might spread further through more websites like this.  I know I can't change opinions on things like that, so I won't try.

K, I haven't seen where they have said that.  Did I miss it?

Offline Myroria

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #44 on: September 26, 2015, 12:10:34 AM »
I fail to see what Taijitu could do as a "political simulation" that it cannot do now. NS is a political simulation - that's what we all came here for. We have a legislature that passes laws already. We already interact with places that are oligarchies or dictatorships - we closed embassies with The Pacific because of their attacks on another region.

The issue here isn't politics. Our social community is lackluster because no one talks about anything. Our RP is byzantine and complex and difficult for a beginner to get into. How do we fix that?

How does Spiritus have a social community vibrant and friendly and fun and we don't? How does TNP have an RP community filled with posts and we don't?
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