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Author Topic: A Master Proposal  (Read 2575 times)

Offline AwesomeSaucer

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2015, 07:51:03 PM »
Thank you to the two comments above!  :)

I think the best thing I can do right now is work on a "Citizen-Manager Act" or something of that nature.  Thoughts on what you guys would like to see?
--
Sincerely,

Former Citizen-Liaison of Taijitu,

Evan C.


Offline bigbaldben

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2015, 08:49:22 PM »
I think we can agree that:

1) We need to encourage people to just run with  their ideas instead of talking about things ad nauseum.

2) We need to maintain control via the Ecclesia.

The balance is the question.  Because, counter to the above:

1) We don't want people to run wild with bad and potentially damaging ideas.

2) We don't want to have to run EVERYTHING by the Ecclesia before moving.

How do we define what citizens should just run with, yet protect Taijitu against really really bad ideas?

Offline Red Mones

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2015, 08:58:38 PM »
I think we can agree that:

1) We need to encourage people to just run with  their ideas instead of talking about things ad nauseum.

2) We need to maintain control via the Ecclesia.

The balance is the question.  Because, counter to the above:

1) We don't want people to run wild with bad and potentially damaging ideas.

2) We don't want to have to run EVERYTHING by the Ecclesia before moving.

How do we define what citizens should just run with, yet protect Taijitu against really really bad ideas?
Interesting thought.

Offline Khem

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2015, 09:16:02 PM »
What power(s) does the Citizen-Liaison have that you feel is too much? I'm genuinely curious.  :)
I think he/she should not be able to create social programs like Orri's proposed Citizen-Guide system or my proposed Skype chat without the Ecclesia's full involvement.  He/she can run and propose those systems, but they still need to be approved by the Ecclesia, not something that just "comes along" with electing a CL.

I think the CL needs to be reworked as a "Citizen-Manager" who is in charge of Taijitu's social media accounts (dummy password transfer), Taijitu's YouTube channel, and Taijitu's community.  He runs all social programs, but cannot enact any without the Ecclesia's permission.
I tried to go to the Ecclesia with everything in the beginning with plans as Liaison (as the record will show), yet there was a stronger push for autonomy of the position which I ultimately agree with. I'm not surprised you don't share this view with a warped sense as to what responsibilities this position actually entails as written. Hell you seem intent on expanding the power of this relatively powerless position rather than your claim of wanting to limit officer power.

I don't disagree that we need to boost activity by expanding outreach but I do not see the current structure of the officers/ecclesia as hurting us in this regard. If you want to expand our outreach just start coming up with specific strategies of doing so and propose them to the ecclesia, otherwise you are just blaming others for our lack of build up rather than offering a genuine solution.

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Offline AwesomeSaucer

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2015, 09:19:23 PM »
2) We don't want to have to run EVERYTHING by the Ecclesia before moving.
I'm actually saying we should have to run everything by the Ecclesia.  I don't see a reason not to, considering how small our community is.  Hell, even if we do grow to a few thousand people, we can still run everything by the Ecclesia.
--
Sincerely,

Former Citizen-Liaison of Taijitu,

Evan C.


Offline Dyr Nasad

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2015, 09:24:17 PM »
So nothing would get done?

Our problem right now is not that people have insufficient say in matters. The issue is that no one is "doing things."

Also, all military and FA issues would implode if everything was voted on.

Offline Allama

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2015, 09:28:51 PM »
Our problem right now is not that people have insufficient say in matters. The issue is that no one is "doing things."

Also, all military and FA issues would implode if everything was voted on.

Quite agreed!

Offline Wast

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2015, 09:46:16 PM »
My suggestion would be to draft a Citizen-Manager Act and develop a basic plan for outreach. This can all be done within the bounds of the existing system. The government we have is good enough for now, and the best way to improve it in the short term is through more participation rather than structural change.

Offline Delfos

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2015, 12:01:26 AM »
oh crap, I said so much on the other topic that I should have said here.
I value this ad hoc spirit therefore I'd suggest subtle changes, transfer more work to voluntary Ecclesia people, let us decide to do things.

Ecclesia needs to reclaim power, re-design the "offices", we don't need half the bills that grant autonomy to work groups that don't work and aren't really autonomous, we need to decide ourselves what to do, let people be in the center of the discussion, planning and decisions, that way everyone feels they have participated.

I like the Citizen-Manager if it take up the most practical functions of C-L and C-I, whatever Ecclesia can do themselves we can all do our part then removing the C-I functions to the Ecclesia.

tbh I don't see why Ecclesia couldn't take up the whole of the decision making, how hard is to vote on stuff? Some things don't need to be endlessly discussed, yes, we should define those things and either the Citizen-Delegate or some sort of elected commission could then put up votes to whatever decision needs to be done without passing through a whole discussion about why what or how. But, What is the rush? We all like to have everything discussed by everyone, everyone having equal chance to discuss and vote, but it never happens, it will never happen, but because this can't be perfect you don't need to have someone with the power to make decisions, for instance for foreign policy, on the spot. There's no need, the whole game is sluggish already, why do you need to reply immediately? Lets all be sluggish and have a sluggish system where the most people can participate, or at least that everyone have the chance to participate.

Offline AwesomeSaucer

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2015, 02:14:03 AM »
Our problem right now is not that people have insufficient say in matters. The issue is that no one is "doing things."
Yes, this is certainly a big issue; I understand.  Hopefully, getting new fresh members should help this somewhat.  :)
--
Sincerely,

Former Citizen-Liaison of Taijitu,

Evan C.


Offline St Oz

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2015, 08:13:14 AM »
Maybe some citizens should give less shits about other places and more shits about taijitu, and I'm not saying forget about your precious TNP (though I wish we could all just give it the collective middle finger already).

Offline bigbaldben

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2015, 01:14:52 PM »
Our problem right now is not that people have insufficient say in matters. The issue is that no one is "doing things."
Yes, this is certainly a big issue; I understand.  Hopefully, getting new fresh members should help this somewhat.  :)

Not directed at this post necessarily, but we really don't seem to have much trouble at all attracting new members.  Look at the "Introductions" forum. Sometimes it's the most active forum! 

So the problem really is how do we get these people to stay? And/or participate?

Offline Delfos

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2015, 02:23:31 PM »
I'm saying forget about your precious TNP
hear hear!

Offline AwesomeSaucer

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2015, 02:44:50 PM »
Our problem right now is not that people have insufficient say in matters. The issue is that no one is "doing things."
Yes, this is certainly a big issue; I understand.  Hopefully, getting new fresh members should help this somewhat.  :)

Not directed at this post necessarily, but we really don't seem to have much trouble at all attracting new members.  Look at the "Introductions" forum. Sometimes it's the most active forum! 

So the problem really is how do we get these people to stay? And/or participate?
That's the main goal of that Citizen-Mentor program, but I haven't seen Orri in weeks.
--
Sincerely,

Former Citizen-Liaison of Taijitu,

Evan C.


Offline Red Mones

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2015, 04:59:53 PM »
That's the main goal of that Citizen-Mentor program, but I haven't seen Orri in weeks.
It says in his profile he was last active yesterday at 5:18 p.m..