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Author Topic: A Master Proposal  (Read 2577 times)

Offline AwesomeSaucer

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A Master Proposal
« on: September 22, 2015, 12:31:54 AM »
Taijitu has been comparatively inactive lately.  I wanted to bring this up to see what you guys' opinions are, and perhaps to spark some new life permanently into Taijitu itself.

I think Taijitu needs to look at itself in the mirror since the Glorious Revolution and see what it's become.  We need to compare our current ideals from what we intented to be one year ago.  And after I studied the mirror, these are my findings.  Taijitu needs to change.

Glorious Revolution 2.0?  No, I don't think something to that scale is necessary, but I do think we need some major reforms here.

For one, we need to become much more direct of a democracy.  Our current system pretty much involves 4 (or perhaps 5 or 6, depending on what you count) elected officials that in theory were strictly public servants signing and executing bills passed by the Ecclesia, but this is simply not how it's been working.  Our officials are now almost the only legislators, and I know (from experience, mind you) that this can lead to some major misconceptions and errors.  We really need to look at our principles of what it means to be a Taijituan democracy, and we need to act on them; because as of now, we have a system that almost begs of inactivity.  I am a liberal (Taijituan liberal, not American liberal), and being so, I think we need to noticeably strengthen our Ecclesia, and weaken our executive branch to strictly executing laws.  This doesn't mean that officers cannot propose bills, it just means that they cannot make them and enact them on their own.

Two, we simply need more members.  Right now, we are a region that survives through life support, through irregular incidents such as the big NS Reddit jump about one month ago.  We can no longer survive on this method, and I have a few ideas I'd like to spitball that may help.
One - social media presence.  Perhaps this is non-explanatory, but we need to get ourselves out more.  NS is a game that only a select niche play, a very time-consuming one at that.  Allowing people to see us through other sources like Twitter, Google, Reddit, and YouTube gives us a self-sustaining support system of new citizens.  YT is especially attractive to me as a videographer, and perhaps I could take care of that aspect.
Two - NS nationship is no longer required.  Yea, I said it.  I can already sense the conservatives (Taijituan conservatives) scoffing at this idea, but I think it makes sense.  I think Taijitu has been heading down a path from a simple NS region to a social forum where people can hang out, chat, and interact in a simulated political environment.  While NS will remain a niche game, a website that simulates a government for those who don't actually want to engage in their RL government will never be; there will always be politically curious people out there.  And as such, we shouldn't require an active NS nation for citizenship.  A simple request should do it.  And remember, if we do want to make our social media presence bigger, we couldn't require people to join another game along with Taijitu.

We could get membership in the thousands if this goes correctly.  We could have an always-active, online government system where people come in to discuss and vote on laws that actually affect them (in Taijitu only, of course).  And perhaps other websites could spring up to simulate representative democracies, or oligarchies, or dictatorships, or any other style of government.  But if this goes according to plan, we could create an entirely new category of simulation and gaming: online political simulation, where you can become a citizen of an online world, that acts almost independently of the real world.  We could be big.
--
Sincerely,

Former Citizen-Liaison of Taijitu,

Evan C.


Offline Bustos

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2015, 01:25:49 AM »
i see hewere ur going..but taijitu is rly a core of the sme peiplez with sum ..uknowah...i think i shouldnt tyoe when druk an whino.  gonna stop here  mebbe comeback tmw
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Offline Myroria

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2015, 01:47:22 AM »
I think whatever gets Taijitu working with new blood will be fine with me. I have commitments in TNP that will preclude me from active politics here. I'm here for the worldbuilding and social community at this point.
"I assure you -- I will be quite content to be a mere mortal again, dedicated to my own amusements."

Offline Wast

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2015, 08:59:44 AM »
Perhaps it's just late, but I'm a bit confused on the direct democracy point. Isn't the Ecclesia already direct? Any citizen can propose a law, the citizens vote on the law, a process over which no official has any particular discretion.

As for expansion, my recommendation is to focus on establishing a stable core of activity first, and to be ambitious later. One can also rely on central planning only so much - systems can encourage activity, but can stifle it if they are too overbearing or artificial. You can insert your favorite build-a-foundation or follow-your-dreams-but-not-off-a-cliff aphorism here. 'Virtual' government is a tool for organizing and protecting a community rather than an end in itself. I'll probably be more coherent about this later.

Offline AwesomeSaucer

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2015, 10:48:14 AM »
Perhaps it's just late, but I'm a bit confused on the direct democracy point. Isn't the Ecclesia already direct? Any citizen can propose a law, the citizens vote on the law, a process over which no official has any particular discretion.

As for expansion, my recommendation is to focus on establishing a stable core of activity first, and to be ambitious later. One can also rely on central planning only so much - systems can encourage activity, but can stifle it if they are too overbearing or artificial. You can insert your favorite build-a-foundation or follow-your-dreams-but-not-off-a-cliff aphorism here. 'Virtual' government is a tool for organizing and protecting a community rather than an end in itself. I'll probably be more coherent about this later.
I'll talk to you later on IRC.  This is really complex, and I don't think I can explain it well in a forum reply.
--
Sincerely,

Former Citizen-Liaison of Taijitu,

Evan C.


Offline bigbaldben

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2015, 01:31:17 PM »
Perhaps it's just late, but I'm a bit confused on the direct democracy point. Isn't the Ecclesia already direct? Any citizen can propose a law, the citizens vote on the law, a process over which no official has any particular discretion.

As for expansion, my recommendation is to focus on establishing a stable core of activity first, and to be ambitious later. One can also rely on central planning only so much - systems can encourage activity, but can stifle it if they are too overbearing or artificial. You can insert your favorite build-a-foundation or follow-your-dreams-but-not-off-a-cliff aphorism here. 'Virtual' government is a tool for organizing and protecting a community rather than an end in itself. I'll probably be more coherent about this later.
I'll talk to you later on IRC.  This is really complex, and I don't think I can explain it well in a forum reply.

Both require using written words to communicate, so this makes ZERO sense. 

Without knowing what you mean by everything you posted, I have no opinion on whether to support.

The one part I do understand - that we need more forms of communication - has been your wonder drug cure all since you got here. It is impossible to build up a base when you a have inumerable platforms.  I feel left out on IRC stuff because it is not practical for me to use.  People only on IRC miss out on forum stuff.  It all equals disjointedness and disconnectedness.  More makes it worse.

We have the forums, which seem to be the "official" Taijitu communication tool, especially since IRC logs are "not for sharing."  Additional forms of communication - Skype, hangouts, whatever, are not solutions, they are tools. 

Exactly what Wast is saying: stable core of activity FIRST, "ambitious" stuff later.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 01:33:04 PM by bigbaldben »

Offline AwesomeSaucer

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2015, 02:13:58 PM »
Perhaps it's just late, but I'm a bit confused on the direct democracy point. Isn't the Ecclesia already direct? Any citizen can propose a law, the citizens vote on the law, a process over which no official has any particular discretion.

As for expansion, my recommendation is to focus on establishing a stable core of activity first, and to be ambitious later. One can also rely on central planning only so much - systems can encourage activity, but can stifle it if they are too overbearing or artificial. You can insert your favorite build-a-foundation or follow-your-dreams-but-not-off-a-cliff aphorism here. 'Virtual' government is a tool for organizing and protecting a community rather than an end in itself. I'll probably be more coherent about this later.
I'll talk to you later on IRC.  This is really complex, and I don't think I can explain it well in a forum reply.
The one part I do understand - that we need more forms of communication - has been your wonder drug cure all since you got here. It is impossible to build up a base when you a have inumerable platforms.  I feel left out on IRC stuff because it is not practical for me to use.  People only on IRC miss out on forum stuff.  It all equals disjointedness and disconnectedness.  More makes it worse.

We have the forums, which seem to be the "official" Taijitu communication tool, especially since IRC logs are "not for sharing."  Additional forms of communication - Skype, hangouts, whatever, are not solutions, they are tools. 
Communication?  No, I'm past that phase.  Things like Skype and that forum redesign aren't what I'm looking for.  However, I think we need more outreach, something much different than communication.  Outreach involves the social media presence I was talking about.

The idea of beginning with basic change first seems reasonable, but it goes against what I thought this plan could do.  I think that those types of changes should be brought on by the new members we get with our outreach.  Y'know, democracy!  :)
--
Sincerely,

Former Citizen-Liaison of Taijitu,

Evan C.


Offline bigbaldben

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2015, 02:29:11 PM »
Perhaps it's just late, but I'm a bit confused on the direct democracy point. Isn't the Ecclesia already direct? Any citizen can propose a law, the citizens vote on the law, a process over which no official has any particular discretion.

As for expansion, my recommendation is to focus on establishing a stable core of activity first, and to be ambitious later. One can also rely on central planning only so much - systems can encourage activity, but can stifle it if they are too overbearing or artificial. You can insert your favorite build-a-foundation or follow-your-dreams-but-not-off-a-cliff aphorism here. 'Virtual' government is a tool for organizing and protecting a community rather than an end in itself. I'll probably be more coherent about this later.
I'll talk to you later on IRC.  This is really complex, and I don't think I can explain it well in a forum reply.
The one part I do understand - that we need more forms of communication - has been your wonder drug cure all since you got here. It is impossible to build up a base when you a have inumerable platforms.  I feel left out on IRC stuff because it is not practical for me to use.  People only on IRC miss out on forum stuff.  It all equals disjointedness and disconnectedness.  More makes it worse.

We have the forums, which seem to be the "official" Taijitu communication tool, especially since IRC logs are "not for sharing."  Additional forms of communication - Skype, hangouts, whatever, are not solutions, they are tools. 
Communication?  No, I'm past that phase.  Things like Skype and that forum redesign aren't what I'm looking for.  However, I think we need more outreach, something much different than communication.  Outreach involves the social media presence I was talking about.

The idea of beginning with basic change first seems reasonable, but it goes against what I thought this plan could do.  I think that those types of changes should be brought on by the new members we get with our outreach.  Y'know, democracy!  :)

Ok, I am on board with that.  Thought you were going down the same path.  I'm in a training class all week and not paying attention, obviously - jotting down some ideas and stuff that I'll put together and post as things to hopefully start building on.  You are right, I think, in seeking new ways to reach out.

I think the number one issue is to define what we WANT Taijitu to be. Something more specific than "a nationstates region," though I would not want to sever ties with NS.

Offline Allama

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2015, 03:58:18 PM »
I am a liberal (Taijituan liberal, not American liberal), and being so, I think we need to noticeably strengthen our Ecclesia, and weaken our executive branch to strictly executing laws.  This doesn't mean that officers cannot propose bills, it just means that they cannot make them and enact them on their own.

This is already not a thing that happens. No one in the executive has ever once made and enacted a law since the Glorious Revolution without openly involving the entire Ecclesia and following proper democratic procedures.

Also, why is it shocking that the people who actually bother to do shit are the ones who get elected over and over? We're not excluding anyone, in fact we actively encourage new Citizens to get involved and run for election. When you yourself came into the region we enthusiastically supported your run for Citizen-Liaison.

I can see your concerns about recycling officers as valid, certainly; it does encourage inactivity for those not involved. But why not just do something about it? Write a bill. It'll get discussed and go to vote just like anyone else's proposals would. Or run for an office and then follow up on your own ideas. No one is stopping you. I would be legitimately thrilled to see more newbs (or old members who've not gotten into it before) proposing legislation and getting into government positions! That would be excellent! Nothing about our current structure precludes that.

We've made things as open and directly democratic as possible. As Citizen-Delegate I literally have no power whatsoever that the rest of our Citizens lack. All I have is admin access on NS and we don't even change region page wording without voting on it first. Even diplomacy-wise I do nothing unsanctioned by the group.

I agree that we need to find more ways to engage new people and keep the region lively and fresh. I just don't think our governmental system is unfair or oligarchic as is.

Offline Dyr Nasad

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2015, 04:36:06 PM »
I need guidance on how we are not democratic.

We do recycle officers, and that is a bit of an issue, but not that much. Many of our officers are very much public servants - they put a lot of work into the positions and receive little in return. Particularly looking at Delegate and Initiator with that. They receive little/no extra authority/etc and end up doing a significant amount of administrative work.

Some officer positions require other knowledge. We end up recycling Diplomats and Sergeants because only a handful of people are qualified and others do not wish to put the work in to become qualified.

If we want to expand social media, go for it (If people find Taijitu/NS from FB instead of Wikipedia, that is cool). However, I do not want to see Taijitu separating from NS. If you're on these boards, you should be connected to the game in some way. No need to turn us into another random pit on the internet

Offline AwesomeSaucer

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2015, 05:06:26 PM »
Some quick things:

OK, I over-exaggerated on the officer thing.  I think, though, what really needs to be nerfed or removed is the Liaison position; it has too much power.  Otherwise, your points are good.  Delegate and Initiator have been doing their job very well.

And removing all ties with NS?  Absolutely not.  We will always be the best NationStates region in the world, and we will always stay that way.  I'm just proposing that we remove the requirement of having a NS nation to be a citizen.  That's all.
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Former Citizen-Liaison of Taijitu,

Evan C.


Offline Allama

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2015, 05:41:09 PM »
What power(s) does the Citizen-Liaison have that you feel is too much? I'm genuinely curious.  :)

Offline AwesomeSaucer

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2015, 06:33:52 PM »
What power(s) does the Citizen-Liaison have that you feel is too much? I'm genuinely curious.  :)
I think he/she should not be able to create social programs like Orri's proposed Citizen-Guide system or my proposed Skype chat without the Ecclesia's full involvement.  He/she can run and propose those systems, but they still need to be approved by the Ecclesia, not something that just "comes along" with electing a CL.

I think the CL needs to be reworked as a "Citizen-Manager" who is in charge of Taijitu's social media accounts (dummy password transfer), Taijitu's YouTube channel, and Taijitu's community.  He runs all social programs, but cannot enact any without the Ecclesia's permission.
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Sincerely,

Former Citizen-Liaison of Taijitu,

Evan C.


Offline Red Mones

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2015, 06:36:21 PM »
I think he/she should not be able to create social programs like Orri's proposed Citizen-Guide system or my proposed Skype chat without the Ecclesia's full involvement.  He/she can run and propose those systems, but they still need to be approved by the Ecclesia, not something that just "comes along" with electing a CL.

I think the CL needs to be reworked as a "Citizen-Manager" who is in charge of Taijitu's social media accounts (dummy password transfer), Taijitu's YouTube channel, and Taijitu's community.  He runs all social programs, but cannot enact any without the Ecclesia's permission.
This works.

Offline Allama

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Re: A Master Proposal
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2015, 06:43:45 PM »
What power(s) does the Citizen-Liaison have that you feel is too much? I'm genuinely curious.  :)
I think he/she should not be able to create social programs like Orri's proposed Citizen-Guide system or my proposed Skype chat without the Ecclesia's full involvement.  He/she can run and propose those systems, but they still need to be approved by the Ecclesia, not something that just "comes along" with electing a CL.

I think the CL needs to be reworked as a "Citizen-Manager" who is in charge of Taijitu's social media accounts (dummy password transfer), Taijitu's YouTube channel, and Taijitu's community.  He runs all social programs, but cannot enact any without the Ecclesia's permission.

Okay, I see your point. That makes sure The Ecclesia is at least involved in which directions the Cit-Liaison runs in. I'm not quite certain if I agree but you are definitely swaying my opinion. Will give it some thought!