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Author Topic: [Vote] Ecclesia Improvement Act  (Read 2544 times)

Offline AwesomeSaucer

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Re: [Vote] Ecclesia Improvement Act
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2015, 03:48:57 AM »
Actually, since this proposal would amend the constitution, it'll require two separate votes.
Shall we count my other "[informal]" thread as the other vote?
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Offline Wast

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Re: [Vote] Ecclesia Improvement Act
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2015, 03:57:30 AM »
No. It would have to be a vote on the proposal.

Offline Of The US

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Re: [Vote] Ecclesia Improvement Act
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2015, 07:04:57 AM »
Actually, since this proposal would amend the constitution, it'll require two separate votes.

Actually, its a vote to get rid of the constitution, very different from amending it.
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Offline Wast

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Re: [Vote] Ecclesia Improvement Act
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2015, 07:44:08 AM »
Actually, since this proposal would amend the constitution, it'll require two separate votes.

Actually, its a vote to get rid of the constitution, very different from amending it.

If you're working within the existing system, getting rid of the constitution is amending it.

However, the proposal doesn't actually amend or repeal the constitution, technically. The Ecclesia is voting to yield its own power, but it doesn't grant that power to any other body, so you could argue that it does not contradict the provision that the "Ecclesia alone may legislate". On the other hand, this puts the government in the awkward position of having no way to legislate at all. Even better, there is no Court to rule on the validity of the act, and upon passing the Ecclesia cannot do so either.

It's the result of the Convention that would require either (a) abandoning the government outright or (b) a vote to amend the constitution. But with no Ecclesia to vote, (a) becomes the only option.

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« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 07:50:48 AM by Wast »

Offline Khem

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Re: [Vote] Ecclesia Improvement Act
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2015, 03:10:59 PM »
Apparently not, unless the writers of the proposal wish to revise it.
I do wish to revise it.

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Offline AwesomeSaucer

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Re: [Vote] Ecclesia Improvement Act
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2015, 03:47:00 PM »
Apparently not, unless the writers of the proposal wish to revise it.
I do wish to revise it.
Some revision for clarity would be nice!  I'm more than happy to help if you'd like.
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Offline Khem

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Re: [Vote] Ecclesia Improvement Act
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2015, 03:51:59 PM »
Apparently not, unless the writers of the proposal wish to revise it.
I do wish to revise it.
Some revision for clarity would be nice!  I'm more than happy to help if you'd like.
I'll pop onto IRC in a bit and we can work on it.

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Offline AwesomeSaucer

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Re: [Vote] Ecclesia Improvement Act
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2015, 06:52:56 PM »
Apparently not, unless the writers of the proposal wish to revise it.
I do wish to revise it.
Some revision for clarity would be nice!  I'm more than happy to help if you'd like.
I'll pop onto IRC in a bit and we can work on it.
I'm free later on this day, if I'm efficient enough.  I'll stop on by too.  :)
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Offline Wast

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Re: [Vote] Ecclesia Improvement Act
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2015, 07:30:00 PM »
It's good that the proposal is being revised. It doesn't seem to reflect the sentiment in the discussion thread.

And besides, whether this passes or not, we are still collaborating on a new government.

Offline Bustos

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Re: [Vote] Ecclesia Improvement Act
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2015, 06:19:06 PM »
If this passes, is there going to be a 2nd vote or...?
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Offline Red Mones

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Re: [Vote] Ecclesia Improvement Act
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2015, 06:29:10 PM »
If this passes, is there going to be a 2nd vote or...?
Wondering that too.

Offline Bustos

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Re: [Vote] Ecclesia Improvement Act
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2015, 06:35:33 PM »
Currently 21 total votes.  We do not count the abstentions.

21 * .666 = 13.986  = 2/3 majority

As it stands, it will not pass.  Is my logic correct?
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Offline Delfos

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Re: [Vote] Ecclesia Improvement Act
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2015, 09:11:25 PM »
there is no need for complicated Math, plus I doubt Abstention as vote counts for the two thirds majority, votes for need to be double the ones against.

Since this isn't a final draft I'm pretty sure this votes stands as an initiative and there needs to be another vote. If there were more nays than yays it would put in question the whole effort, since it doesn't, cheer up.

Offline Bustos

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Re: [Vote] Ecclesia Improvement Act
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2015, 01:12:36 AM »
there is no need for complicated Math, plus I doubt Abstention as vote counts for the two thirds majority, votes for need to be double the ones against.

Since this isn't a final draft I'm pretty sure this votes stands as an initiative and there needs to be another vote. If there were more nays than yays it would put in question the whole effort, since it doesn't, cheer up.

So...translated from Delfian, "Yes, you are correct."
« Last Edit: December 05, 2015, 01:14:22 AM by Bustos »
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Offline Delfos

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Re: [Vote] Ecclesia Improvement Act
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2015, 10:18:41 AM »
there is no need for complicated Math, plus I doubt Abstention as vote counts for the two thirds majority, votes for need to be double the ones against.

Since this isn't a final draft I'm pretty sure this votes stands as an initiative and there needs to be another vote. If there were more nays than yays it would put in question the whole effort, since it doesn't, cheer up.

So...translated from Delfian, "Yes, you are correct."

translated from Bustos: